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Author Topic:   Jesus - the Lineage
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 31 of 39 (240574)
09-05-2005 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by jar
09-05-2005 11:56 AM


Re: Some answers to chew on...
I was musing about Phat's idea of objective reality. IMO, it would have more credibility if someone who had never heard of Jesus emerged from a sparsely inhabited area and declared that Jesus was their (there's that word again )saviour.
If there is an objective reality that is God, I really do not see how we can go about proving that.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by jar, posted 09-05-2005 11:56 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by jar, posted 09-05-2005 1:05 PM Brian has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 32 of 39 (240580)
09-05-2005 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Phat
08-30-2005 12:20 PM


Re: Some answers to chew on...
Hi Phat,
Just a small question, no big deal really, but can you tell me why you put theologian in inverted commas?
Is it purely to do with your personal viewpoint?
Remember, I am not making an issue of this, just curious.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Phat, posted 08-30-2005 12:20 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Phat, posted 09-30-2005 9:59 AM Brian has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 33 of 39 (240584)
09-05-2005 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Brian
09-05-2005 12:50 PM


Objective subjective??????
Yes, Phat and I have discussed just that issue. iano also brings it up. Mayhaps one day we can have a thread on that since I don't see how anything involving Faith can ever be objective.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Brian, posted 09-05-2005 12:50 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Brian, posted 09-05-2005 1:08 PM jar has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 34 of 39 (240587)
09-05-2005 1:08 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by jar
09-05-2005 1:05 PM


Re: Objective subjective??????
I don't see how anything involving Faith can ever be objective.
They may not view it as faith.
Anyway, it'll keep for another thread.
Brian.

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 Message 33 by jar, posted 09-05-2005 1:05 PM jar has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 35 of 39 (247626)
09-30-2005 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Brian
09-05-2005 12:57 PM


Re: Some answers to chew on...
I knew it would get your attention, Brian!
Do you agree with Jar that Faith can never be objective?
When I look up the word object in a concordance, I see a list of things.
Object of scorn.
Object of cursing.
Object of horror. It appears that people are objects.
If there be a king, however, are we not subjects?
Or maybe people just object?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Brian, posted 09-05-2005 12:57 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Brian, posted 09-30-2005 10:48 AM Phat has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 36 of 39 (247643)
09-30-2005 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Phat
09-30-2005 9:59 AM


Re: Some answers to chew on...
.
This message has been edited by Brian, 10-13-2005 02:36 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Phat, posted 09-30-2005 9:59 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by PaulK, posted 09-30-2005 11:07 AM Brian has not replied
 Message 38 by Phat, posted 09-30-2005 11:52 AM Brian has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 37 of 39 (247648)
09-30-2005 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by Brian
09-30-2005 10:48 AM


Re: Some answers to chew on...
quote:
I have no axe to grind so my conclusion that there was no Exodus is more reliable than some evangelical 'scholar's' claims that there is evidence.
And I think that is precisely WHY Phatboy doesn't "trust" your views. He doesn't trust you to say what he wants to hear. If you look back on the thread you'll see that he refuses to check his apologetic sources at all. He won't even look up the Bible verses they refer to. It looks to me as if he at least suspects his sources are lying and doesn't want to know the truth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Brian, posted 09-30-2005 10:48 AM Brian has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 38 of 39 (247656)
09-30-2005 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by Brian
09-30-2005 10:48 AM


Re: Some answers to chew on...
Brian writes:
Now, to prove that there is a God you would need to provide evidence that the impartial researcher could never refute, this has never been done, and never will be.
So evidence for God never will be proven? This topic is in a forum known as Bible Study. There are several ways to study the Bible.
Brian writes:
You should have looked up 'objective'.
In this context it means: Uninfluenced by personal prejudices or emotions.
In what context? Bible Study? Some people who study the Bible are influenced by emotions and also by prejudices. Are you not prejudiced in regards to "proof?"
websters writes:
the”ol”o”gy \th-"-l-j\ n, pl -gies 1 : the study of religious faith, practice, and experience; esp : the study of God and of God's relation to the world 2 : a theory or system of theology ” the”o”lo”gian \'th--"l—-jn\ n ” the”o”log”i”cal
I trust the dictionary in regards to definition of concepts. The concept of a Bible study does not have to be empirical. It often can be biased one way or another. That is the heart of debate. Why should the Bible be judged based solely on some humans wisdom? Perhaps it is subjective. To some, it is objective as we believe in a literal King. To others, the literal king on the throne of their concepts, beliefs, and ideas about knowledge is themselves and collective human wisdom.
PaulK writes:
And I think that is precisely WHY Phatboy doesn't "trust" your views. He doesn't trust you to say what he wants to hear. If you look back on the thread you'll see that he refuses to check his apologetic sources at all. He won't even look up the Bible verses they refer to.
I may not agree with all of Brian or your views, but that hardly means I don't trust you as unique individuals with another perspective. To me, study of the Bible is based on Jesus Christ.
Phatboy writes:
I respect Brian, but I won't acknowledge the wisdom of an atheist/agnostic "theologian." My whole point is that wisdom is not human originated.
Perhaps I was a bit too personal here, and if so, I apologize. I do respect you, Brian. I just argue and discuss ideas a bit too emotionally at times
PaulK writes:
.If you look back on the thread you'll see that he refuses to check his apologetic sources at all.
Who would I check with?
This message has been edited by Phatboy, 09-30-2005 09:53 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Brian, posted 09-30-2005 10:48 AM Brian has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by PaulK, posted 09-30-2005 11:58 AM Phat has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 39 of 39 (247657)
09-30-2005 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Phat
09-30-2005 11:52 AM


Re: Some answers to chew on...
quote:
Who would I check with?
The Bible.
To see if it says what your sources claim it says.
I asked. You refused.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Phat, posted 09-30-2005 11:52 AM Phat has not replied

  
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