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Author Topic:   Parables 101
ringo
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 67 of 229 (309984)
05-07-2006 1:25 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by iano
05-07-2006 1:14 PM


Re: Another Parable: The Good Samaritan
iano writes:
he didn't asked the obvious question "How on earth is one to follow such an impossible law?"
That's not an "obvious question" at all. It's dead wrong.
The Samaritan did follow the law. He did love his neighbour as himself, thus demonstrating his love for God. The whole point of the parable is that it is possible to follow the law , by simple actions, and that everybody is your neighbour.

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 Message 66 by iano, posted 05-07-2006 1:14 PM iano has replied

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 Message 68 by iano, posted 05-07-2006 1:31 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 69 of 229 (309987)
05-07-2006 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by iano
05-07-2006 1:31 PM


Re: Another Parable: The Good Samaritan
iano writes:
Tomorrow on your way into work. Keep your eyes peeled. And the next and the next...
Cos as sure as night follows day, if you were in their shoes you would want it done unto you.
Exactly. That is what Jesus told us to do - and if you don't do it, you're a goat.

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ringo
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 71 of 229 (309997)
05-07-2006 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by iano
05-07-2006 1:43 PM


Re: Another Parable: The Good Samaritan
iano writes:
So are you a goat?
God will decide.
... some evidence of it.
God has the evidence.
Did you read the parable at all?
quote:
Luk 10:37 ... Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.
Jesus was not setting an impossible task. He said very plainly that that is what we have to do to inherit eternal life. And that is all we have to do.

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ringo
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 73 of 229 (310050)
05-07-2006 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by iano
05-07-2006 4:56 PM


Re: Another Parable: The Good Samaritan
iano writes:
The parable doesn't tell us the whole Samaritans life, it doesn't tell us whether he was a sheep or a goat.
It tell us he was a good neighbour. That's what Jesus requires of us.
God alone decides who is a sheep and who is a goat. There is no "secret formula" that you can use - one missed chance and you're a goat. As Jesus said, some of the sheep will be surprized and some of the goats will be surprized.
Jesus said "love thy neighbour as thyself. You are not required to be perfect in your treatment of yourself. Neither are you required to be perfect in your treatment of your neighbour.

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ringo
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 75 of 229 (310060)
05-07-2006 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by iano
05-07-2006 5:22 PM


Our Topic Is: The Good Samaritan
You're straying from the parable of the Good Samaritan.
Instead of trying to judge my standard of perfection, why don't you address the actual topic?
According to Jesus, the Samaritan did treat the robbery victim as he would want to be treated himself. That is not an impossible standard. It is the standard Jesus holds us to.
Address what the Samaritan did do, not what more he might have done.

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ringo
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 77 of 229 (310091)
05-07-2006 7:41 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by iano
05-07-2006 7:02 PM


Re: Our Topic Is: The Good Samaritan
iano writes:
I took it that obeying the law was the point.
Loving thy neighbour was the point.
The Samaritan did do the right thing, so Jesus certainly was implying that it is possible to do the right thing.
Don't project your own shortcomings onto everybody else.

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ringo
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 79 of 229 (310109)
05-07-2006 8:29 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by iano
05-07-2006 8:21 PM


Re: Our Topic Is: The Good Samaritan
iano writes:
Jesus didn't say anything about possibility.
Sure He did. How many other parables did He tell in which impossible actions occured? None? His parables were everyday events told in such a way as to parallel our relationship with God.
Whether it is possible or not for anyone is for them to decide.
Nonsense. It's for God to decide.
Then he said go and do likewise. "This is the meaning of the law - now do it"
Another indication that Jesus believed it was possible to obey the law. He didn't even say "Do your best." He flat-out said, "Do it." He knew it could be done. Why don't you believe Him?

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 Message 80 by iano, posted 05-07-2006 8:50 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 81 of 229 (310131)
05-07-2006 9:01 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by iano
05-07-2006 8:50 PM


Re: Our Topic Is: The Good Samaritan
iano writes:
A man was told what he must do if he wants to inherit the kingdom according to what the law says. The law doesn't state anything about the possibility of it being kept.
So now you're claiming that it's impossible to inherit the kingdom? Don't be ridiculous.
Jesus said what must be done. He was obviously talking about something that is possible.
God issues commands. He can issue possible ones or impossible ones. He is under no obligation to make laws we can keep
God is not an idiot.

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ringo
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 87 of 229 (310271)
05-08-2006 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by iano
05-08-2006 5:10 AM


Re: Our Topic Is: The Good Samaritan
iano writes:
The nature of Law is that it is to be obeyed - not questioned as to whether is is possible, fair, a good idea or idiotic.
Even human laws must be "obeyable", or they are worthless. Why do you have a lower opinion of God's laws?
A parable, by its very nature, describes events that supposedly did happen - therefore, the events could happen. Jesus specifically chose an unlikely event - helping one's worst enemy - to underline the fact that God's law is obeyable.
A parable, by its very nature, also parallels our lives and our relationships with God. By using a parable to make His point, Jesus was demonstrating that we can obey the law.
The plain text does plainly refer to the possibility of obeying the law and no amount of hand-waving on your part will make that go away.
The plain test does not refer to 100% compliance with the law and no amount of hand-waving on your part will add to the text what is not there.

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ringo
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 89 of 229 (310325)
05-08-2006 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by Phat
05-08-2006 1:39 PM


The Man, the Mission and the Lesson
Phat writes:
I believe that acknowledgement of the authority of the teacher (Jesus) and the realization that we do not usually do likewise are indicative of our need for a savior.
I believe that "acknowledgement of the authority of the teacher" and "our need for a savior" are secondary to the message that Jesus brought.
He would not have had to use parables at all if His mission here was only to die.
Dying is easy. Accomplishing something during One's life is considerably harder. For our part, learning something from His teachings is considerably harder than professing a "belief" in Him.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Phat, posted 05-10-2006 6:07 PM ringo has replied
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ringo
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 91 of 229 (310842)
05-10-2006 6:52 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Phat
05-10-2006 6:07 PM


Re: The Man, the Mission and the Lesson
Phat writes:
I view God as my rescuer and reedemer and not a good teacher who expects me to do it all.
In the parable, the Samaritan didn't "do it all". He only did one little thing. It cost him a little time and money, but it was nothing that any other passer-by could not have done.
Instead of thinking of God as your "rescuer", think of all the times that you have been rescued by ordinary human "Samaritans". Then go out and be the Samaritan.

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ringo
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 94 of 229 (312501)
05-16-2006 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by Phat
05-16-2006 10:45 AM


Re: How about the Shrewed Manager?
I look at parables as lessons that draw parallels between our relationship with God and our relationships with people.
Here, we are God's servants. He tells us that He is not happy with our performance and - in His best imitation of Donald Trump - He says, "You're fired!"
In order to cut our losses, we buddy up to the other people who owe Him. Without our employer/employee relationship with God, at least we'll have good old human relationships to fall back on.
But strangely enough, He tells us that we've done wisely. Cultivating human relationships - doing unto others - is what God wants us to do.
I have always said that God's laws are for our benefit, not His. If we love our neighbours as ourselves, we are loving God.
It is better to pray in your own closet than to bray "Lord! Lord!" in public. It is better to give what little you have than to brag about the bags and bags of gold you give - i.e. how valuable you are to God.
The parable simply confirms that by making friends with our fellow man, we are doing the work of God.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by jaywill, posted 05-24-2006 7:26 AM ringo has replied
 Message 104 by jaywill, posted 05-25-2006 9:42 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 96 of 229 (314874)
05-24-2006 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by jaywill
05-24-2006 7:26 AM


Re: How about the Shrewed Manager?
jaywill writes:
Why then did Jesus pray in public on a number of occasions?
I said, "It is better to pray in your own closet...." - I didn't say it is always wrong to pray in public. Jesus, being the Son of God, knew when the occasion was appropriate.
How do we know that your objection of saying "Lord, Lord" in public is not just your reluctance to confess before men that Jesus Christ is your Lord?
You don't know, and you don't need to know. This is not the "Judging Ringo" forum.
So, what does any of that have to do with the parable?

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Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 98 of 229 (315045)
05-25-2006 12:07 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by jaywill
05-24-2006 11:19 PM


Re: How about the Shrewed Manager?
jaywill writes:
That was your way of rediculing those who call "Lord, Lord, Lord Jesus".
No, that was my way of quoting Jesus:
quote:
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
So, what does any of that have to do with the parable?

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This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 100 of 229 (315148)
05-25-2006 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by jaywill
05-25-2006 1:29 PM


Enlightened self-interest
jaywill writes:
For everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
On the contrary:
quote:
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Now, the TOPIC here is the parable of "The Shrewd Manager". Removing all extraneous details and speculations from the story, we have:
  1. The servant acted in his own self-interest.
  2. The master said that the servant had acted wisely.
If the master represents The Master - i.e. God - and the servant represents all of us, then the lesson of the parable is that God wants us to act in our own (collective) self-interest. He wants us to do unto others as we would have them do unto us.
Let's continue beyond Phat's reference:
quote:
Luk 16:10 He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.
If we don't treat each other right, how can we treat God right?
quote:
Luk 16:11 If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?
Why would God reward us if we don't reward each other?
quote:
Luk 16:12 And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own?

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