Parables 101

Phat,I noticed your invitation to join the chat room a long time ago. Sorry if I didn't respond. I was late to see the message and technically lazy about learning how to do it.But to your comment here: Were the twelve disciples of Jesus Jewish believers?If so in the following passage did Jesus indicate the possibility of fulfilling a certain legal requirement was within thier power to do apart from God's grace?"And Jesus, seeing that he became very sorrowful, said, How difficult it is for those who have riches to go into the kingdom of God. For it is easier for a camel to enter through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

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And those who heard said, Then who can be saved?

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But He said, The things that are impossilbe with men are possible with God" (Luke 18:24-27)Was Jesus teaching here that by God's grace those for whom it is impossible to be saved may be saved?This message has been edited by jaywill, 05-08-2006 06:34 AM

Why then did Jesus pray in public on a number of occasions? Particularly in John 17 and John 12?How do we know that your objection of saying "Lord, Lord" in public is not just your reluctance to confess before men that Jesus Christ is your Lord?Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

I think that Jesus was teaching that if one was tempted to be a showoff he should pray privately and in secret. Then the Father who sees in secret would reward such a one.I think the point is for one to go against his natural religious tendency to showoff before men.The whole church prayed in public in the book of Acts. And those prayers were heard by God an answered in a mighty way. There is something beyond mere private and individual spirituality in the Christian church. Some prayer should be corporate and in the presence of others in harmony.Paul also taught that in the church meeting prayers should be accompanied by a reinforcing "Amen" from the congregation. Such prayers are public and not in the closet:"What then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray also with the mind ... Otherwise if you bless with the spirit, how shall he who fills the place of the unlearned [in tongues] say the Amen at your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you are saying? (1 Cor. 14:15,16)Above giving thanks in a prayer meeting is public so that some may give the "Amen" to what the prayer is praying. Neither is it a judge those who "bray ... Lord, Lord" forum. Right? That was your way of rediculing those who call "Lord, Lord, Lord Jesus". That was your judgment, to imply that such are jackasses.So you get a taste of your own medicine.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

No, that was your way of saying that people who call "Lord, Lord" are braying jackasses. Instead of admitting it and perhaps apologizing you're now drawing attention away from your crase attitude to a Bible verse.Your contempt is showing for people who call Jesus Lord. The teaching of Jesus in your hands becomes a twisted tool to redicule the disciples of Jesus who call Him Lord. It is of course good to quickly refer back to the topic. But I think it is kind of sneaky to get your insults in and then as a defense refer everyone back to the topic. Don't you think that is a little sneaky way of poisoning the well?The Lord's teaching about those calling "Lord, Lord" and not doing the Father's will is not a parable but a plain teaching. One day He will tell them that they were lawless. They will lose the reward of the reigning with Christ in His millennial kingdom. The teaching does not mean that they will lose eternal redemption. For everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.In general Matthew's gospel is about the government of God. Repenting for the kingdom is repenting for not being under the government of God.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Ringo, that is concerning entering into the kingdom of the heavens.You are making the assumption that in Matthew's gospel entering into the kingdom of the heavens is the same as receiving eternal redemption. But one can be saved as to eternal life and not be rewarded with entering into the manifestation of the kingdom of the heavens as a reward in the millennial kingdom.So I say again, the New Testament says that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved. They may not be rewarded with entering into the kingdom of the heavens in the millennial age.

Ringo, What does that have to do with the wise steward who made friends? So what does that have to do with praying in the closet?--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Agreed.

Ringo, I am going to set the first paragraph of your comments aside for now and give attention to what you are calling the parable of the Shrewed Manager. I noticed that the topic is Parables 101, and apparently the Shrewed Manager is just one of the parables being discussed here.First of all, this parable is a part of Christ's teaching concerning prudence in service. And it covers Luke 16:1-13. It follows three parables in Luke 15 about salvation. Now that He has taught in Luke 15 about the finding of the lost coin, the finding of the lost sheep, and the return of the prodigal son He goes on to teach about serving God after one has been thus found, rescued, and returned by means of God's grace.The phrase "the sons of this age" (16:8) points to the unbelievers and unsaved worldly people. The phrase "the sons of light" (v. 8) refers to those saved by Christ. The teaching is aimed at perfecting "the sons of light" who are the saved people who are now to serve the Lord Jesus as their Master.The behavior of the worldlings concerning the unrighteous mammon should be a lesson to the saved believers who are intrusted with the true riches of God's grace. The serving disciples should use money in this age for God's interests, God's kingdom, and God's acts of mercy.In the coming age of the kingdom when the world system of unrighteous mammon fails (the Satanic world is over, and mammon will be of no use), those helped by the prudence of the serving disciples will remember their good deeds (if they themselves are saved to enter into that age) and will show receiving hospitality to those prudent servants of God.The prudent believers will be received into eternal habitations by those who shared the benefit of their prudence. This will be fulfilled in the coming kingdom age (Compare 14:13-14 with Matthew 10:42).That is it for this post because I am having some technical problem. I will continue below.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This could be your twisting of the teaching to avoid acknowledging that Jesus is the Lord.Suppose we show love for our fellow man and also call "Lord! Lord!" too? Where does Jesus teach that we are not to call Him Lord Lord? So are you saying "I don't call Jesus the Lord Jesus. I show my fellow man kindness instead?" Is this your "anti-Lord calling" way to be a disciple of Jesus?The Bible says to make mention that His name is exalted (Isa. 12:4). And probably every epistle refers to the Lord Jesus. At least the overwhelming majority refer to the Lord Jesus. So where is the demonstration in the New Testament that we should be discouraged from calling Jesus the Lord? It is NOWHERE.The LORD Jesus teaches that we should call Lord Lord AND do the will of the Father for the coming kingdom reward. So showing the Lord's love (not your love mind you) AND calling Him Lord Lord is quite appropriate.And over the Internet I am quite honored to be able to confess Jesus as Lord. I wonder in all the posts of Ringo if there is ONE in which you clearly acknowledge Jesus as Lord. I'd be surprise if you could point to ONE of the hundreds of posts where you unambiguosly acknowledge Christ as THE LORD, the Lord of you.We claim our opinions here. Why cannot we also claim who is our Lord here? Who said calling Lord Lord is only for begging for forgiveness?There is no reason to beg anyway. There is only need to believe and thank God for Christ's redemptive death for our forgiveness. Who wants you to grovel on the ground begging for forgiveness? Not me.How about telling the Lord that we love Him? How about calling "Lord Lord, I love you. I love to serve you my Lord?" Where in the New Testament is the injunction against that? That's your spin. I think at most you could say that the teaching does not want you to ONLY shout Lord Lord and not serve the Lord.It is not a teaching of working for God INSTEAD of confessing or calling Christ Lord. It is not for the fleshly boasting of the skeptic to say "I just work for God and don't call or confess Jesus as Lord."Again, your contempt for believers in the Lord Jesus is showing. It good enough to emphasize that we should not just shout Lord Lord and fail to live as the Lord lived. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

I'm afraid that if I answer this post the old OFF TOPIC - Do not Reply Flag will be unfurled.Ask the moderator not to flag my reply as OFF TOPIC, and I'll answer this post.

You may be like Judas Iscariot. He also had a good idea to use the money that the ointment was worth and give it to the poor. Good deed. Much more practical than pouring ointment out on the Lord Jesus to show her love for Him before His death.Many Judases are in the world seemingly doing good deeds to conceal their opposition to the Lordship of the Christ. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by AdminPD, : No reason given.

Please time me out.Ringo characterizes my beliefs so why the selective warning? Edited by AdminPD, : Response to Jaywill

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Could you elaborate on this?

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The context of the section is false pathways, false teachers and, it would appear, false profession. I see nothing in here to indicate that these particular callers on the name of the Lord are anything but damned.

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I have been out of the loop here for weeks so bear with me.The words "Depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness" do furnish some strong ground for your interpretation. Now maybe these are genuine Christians, saved by grace, but not under the authority of kingdom living. We should know that some servants of the Lord are rewarded and some are punished. And we should know that some servants are disciplined though they be saved afterwards.Paul said some of the Corinthian believers would be saved yet so as through fire, losing a reward, yet themselves being saved.I submit that though Justification by Faith is true, Reward of the saved is according to works out of transformation once having been eternally redeemed.Now notice a few things:The merciful shall obtain mercy in the kingdom of the heavens Matt. 5:7. Now one who rejects Christ and does not believe in the Son of God will perish. He cannot be saved because he is a merciful person.So the mercy that the the merciful obtain should related not to eternal salvation but reward during the millennial kingdom after the second coming of Christ. Make sense ?Likewise, "Judge not that you be not judged" (Matt. 7:1)
Now one who rejects the Son of God in unbelief will not be saved eternally because he refrains from judging. The Atheist who is merciful and the Atheist who judges not is still going to go to hell.So this not being judged should related not to eternal redemption but reward or discipline during the millennial kingdom.Even the saved Christian needs mercy in relation to his standing before the judgment seat of Christ. And the judgement seat of Christ is ONLY for those who have been eternally redeemed.Paul says to Christians who are justified forever by faith: "But you, why do you judge your BROTHER? Or you, who do you despise your BROTHER? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God ... So then each one of us will give an account concerning himself to God." (See Romans 14:10-12) This is concerning Christian brothers interaction among themselves in the Christian church. Similarly we have this: "For we [including the Apostle Paul] must all be manifested before the judgment seat of Chrtist, that each one may receive the things done through the body according to what he has practiced, whether good or bad. Knowing therefore the fear of the Lord, we [apostles] persuade men [ie. men who are Christians]. So the issue here is that Christians appear before which should also be "the judgment seat of God" not for the decision of thier eternal destiny, but for the decision as to their reward of position in Christ's kingdom before the eternal age - the millennial kingdom where all rewards to believers are dispensed.You see Matthew and John have somewhat of a different frame of reference. John is mostly about repenting to believe into Christ for eternal life. Matthew is a repentence for not being for God, not being under God's authority - a repent FOR THE KINGDOM. Repent of not being under the administration of God.I think that there is a bit of a difference in emphasis.I shortened this post greatly.
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