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Author Topic:   Parables 101
pelican
Member (Idle past 3611 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 151 of 229 (570679)
07-28-2010 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 149 by purpledawn
07-28-2010 8:21 AM


Re: The Parable of the Talents
But the servant still didn't do the most with his one talent given his view of his master's character. That's why the master said:

You wicked lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.

Do you agree with the master's actions of taking what does not belong to him?

The point of the story is that we will be rewarded for faithful stewardship of the gifts given us. Jar said it in Message 127:..that each of us must do the best we can with what we are given.

This parable isn't about equality. It's about reward.

It contains punishment and reward but did jesus mean to teach us how to get rewards or be punished? It doesn't sound like Jesus to me.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by purpledawn, posted 07-28-2010 8:21 AM purpledawn has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by jar, posted 07-28-2010 9:56 AM pelican has responded
 Message 159 by purpledawn, posted 07-28-2010 12:58 PM pelican has responded

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 3611 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 152 of 229 (570684)
07-28-2010 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 150 by jar
07-28-2010 9:07 AM


Re: Parables 101 revisited
The one common thread throughout all of them is that you will be judged based on your behavior.

Exactly. Now it depends on how we (or god) judge our behaviour and whose behaviour we (or god) are judgeing. In the case of the parable of the talents, much more is known about the master and the servant with one talent than the other two.

What does it say in total about the masters' behaviour and what in total does it say about the servant?

The master's opinion of the servant differed to the explanation he had given, but the master agreed with the servants opinion of him. He admitted to taking what did not belong to him. Reaping what others had sown. Is this behaviour acceptable in jesus' eyes or the servant's?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by jar, posted 07-28-2010 9:07 AM jar has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32915
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 153 of 229 (570685)
07-28-2010 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 151 by pelican
07-28-2010 9:43 AM


Re: The Parable of the Talents
pelican writes:

It contains punishment and reward but did jesus mean to teach us how to get rewards or be punished?

{an aside: as a fountain pen user and collector it is really hard for me to type "Pelikan" with a c}

Look at the parables.

Mat 24 writes:

45"Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, 'My master is staying away a long time,' 49and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Virgins writes:

1"At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2Five of them were foolish and five were wise. 3The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them. 4The wise, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps. 5The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep.

6"At midnight the cry rang out: 'Here's the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!'

7"Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. 8The foolish ones said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.'

9" 'No,' they replied, 'there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.'

10"But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.

11"Later the others also came. 'Sir! Sir!' they said. 'Open the door for us!'

12"But he replied, 'I tell you the truth, I don't know you.'

Sheep and goats writes:

31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

In each you find a charge, reward and punishment.

The parable of the Talents fits right in with each of the others.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by pelican, posted 07-28-2010 9:43 AM pelican has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by pelican, posted 07-28-2010 10:26 AM jar has responded

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 3611 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 154 of 229 (570690)
07-28-2010 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by jar
07-28-2010 9:56 AM


Re: The Parable of the Talents
In each you find a charge, reward and punishment.

The parable of the Talents fits right in with each of the others.


yes I agreed that they contain punishment and reward but is that what Jesus was teaching?
In god's kingdom the master does not have precedent over the servant. Only the behaviour is judged.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by jar, posted 07-28-2010 9:56 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by jar, posted 07-28-2010 10:29 AM pelican has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32915
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 155 of 229 (570691)
07-28-2010 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 154 by pelican
07-28-2010 10:26 AM


Re: The Parable of the Talents
pelican writes:

yes I agreed that they contain punishment and reward but is that what Jesus was teaching?

Yes, in this case it is exactly what Jesus is teaching.

pelican writes:

In god's kingdom the master does not have precedent over the servant. Only the behaviour is judged.

Huh? What does precedence have to do with any of the parables?

Edited by jar, : fix word


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by pelican, posted 07-28-2010 10:26 AM pelican has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by pelican, posted 07-28-2010 10:51 AM jar has responded

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 3611 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 156 of 229 (570695)
07-28-2010 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 155 by jar
07-28-2010 10:29 AM


Re: The Parable of the Talents
I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.

I meant the masters' actions will be judged on an equal basis.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by jar, posted 07-28-2010 10:29 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by jar, posted 07-28-2010 11:02 AM pelican has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32915
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 157 of 229 (570699)
07-28-2010 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by pelican
07-28-2010 10:51 AM


Re: The Parable of the Talents
Possibly but irrelevant to the parables.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by pelican, posted 07-28-2010 10:51 AM pelican has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by pelican, posted 07-28-2010 9:17 PM jar has responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 41 days)
Posts: 16111
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 158 of 229 (570711)
07-28-2010 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by pelican
07-27-2010 9:05 PM


This is good stuff. The parable worked insofar as it evoked an expression of self. The parable makes no mention of repentance ...

That's what makes it a parable.

The Lion, The Witch And The Wardrobe doesn't mention Jesus, but it's still a Christian allegory.

... and doesn't Jesus warn that we cannot know when the 'eleventh hour' will come?

Is that relevant?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by pelican, posted 07-27-2010 9:05 PM pelican has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by pelican, posted 07-28-2010 9:27 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 2082 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 159 of 229 (570717)
07-28-2010 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by pelican
07-28-2010 9:43 AM


Re: The Parable of the Talents
quote:
Do you agree with the master's actions of taking what does not belong to him?
Whether the master's actions were right or wrong is irrelevant to the lesson of the story.

quote:
It contains punishment and reward but did jesus mean to teach us how to get rewards or be punished? It doesn't sound like Jesus to me.
Doesn't sound like Jesus of the NT or Jesus as presented today?

Jesus of the NT teaches of reward and punishment as jar showed in Message 153.

Squander the gifts you're given and you will lose them and suffer.


Scripture is like Newton’s third law of motion—for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
In other words, for every biblical directive that exists, there is another scriptural mandate challenging it.
-- Carlene Cross in “The Bible and Newton’s Third Law of Motion”

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by pelican, posted 07-28-2010 9:43 AM pelican has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by pelican, posted 07-28-2010 9:40 PM purpledawn has responded

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 2082 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 160 of 229 (570721)
07-28-2010 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by pelican
07-27-2010 9:05 PM


Parable of the Fair Employer
quote:
This is good stuff. The parable worked insofar as it evoked an expression of self. The parable makes no mention of repentance and doesn't Jesus warn that we cannot know when the 'eleventh hour' will come?
It didn't speak of repentance but it did speak of service.
The kingdom of heaven is like.... A positive phrasing would be that no matter how long one serves "God" they are equal before God. No extra points for serving longer.


Scripture is like Newton’s third law of motion—for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
In other words, for every biblical directive that exists, there is another scriptural mandate challenging it.
-- Carlene Cross in “The Bible and Newton’s Third Law of Motion”

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by pelican, posted 07-27-2010 9:05 PM pelican has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by pelican, posted 07-28-2010 10:07 PM purpledawn has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14597
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 161 of 229 (570730)
07-28-2010 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by jar
07-27-2010 10:38 PM


Parables 101 in differing contexts
jar writes:

This lesson actually starts at the end of what is now Chapter 24. There it points out that none of us know when the end may come, either our personal end or the Second Coming. We are told that we must live our charge as though each day was our last opportunity.

When you look at all of the parables in Matthew 24-25 there is a pattern, they all say that we cannot know what the future will bring, that we must be prepared, that each of us must do the best we can with what we are given, and that in judgment, professions of faith and worship, belief, just won't cut it.

That is often a controversial view that you have, jar. Some say that trusting in Jesus is EVERYTHING and that doing the best that we can won't cut it. But thats another topic....

Pelican writes:

I realise your views may have changed since posting this but are they still concerned with money? I feel we normally relate to these parables according to our own experiences and I don't relate to any of the characters or the situation.

But what I see is that some workers were satisfied with their pay until they saw others getting a better deal. They complained of the others being equal (in pay) to them.

Yes, quite honestly, I would protest if others received a better deal than I. Others doing the same exact work as I, that is. Ironically, I dont protest when I receive a better deal than they, since I justify it based on my longevity. So too would the workers hired early in the day, although it was wisely pointed out that their workload would decrease if more were hired later in the day. Food for thought!

Ringo writes:

We should always be asking ourselves, "Did I do all that I can do with what was given to me?"

*sigh* Yes, yes, I know. The only issue I have is WHO determines all I can or should do?

jar writes:

One of the problems I have with so much of Christianity today is the idea that Christians are some chosen people, a people given some special place. The meek may well inherit the earth, but that doesn't mean they don't have to work for it.

I have no problem with the meek getting their fair share, though I balk at having to surrender some of mine. In the parable, everyone received the SAME wage, which I suppose is fairer than the meek coming along and grabbing better deals, regardless how hard they work. We Christians may not be special, but we certainly dont deserve being goats.

Pelican writes:

I believe everyone does what they can to survive in the only way they know how, right or wrong. I think Jesus clearly demonstrates this in his parables. He makes the point(s) of how we live our lives and what we do to survive. But he tells us there is nothing we have to do to survive. God will provide. We just have choices, which include who we are being as well as what we are doing.

I agree. If God treats everyone the same, it seems fairer to me than accepting either the chosen or the hardest workers.

jar writes:

Talents can mean money or strength or brains or health or speed or knowledge or personality or ...

And no, the servant with one talent did nothing.

No, the Master expects us to do our best.

The workers hired early in the day were expected to harvest a full field for an agreed upon sum. The master later brought other workers in to help. The workload was actually shared, and the ones hired earliest thus had less to be responsible for. They should have thanked the master for helping them rather than cursing those who recieved the same wage.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by jar, posted 07-27-2010 10:38 PM jar has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by ringo, posted 07-28-2010 2:11 PM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18755
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 162 of 229 (570737)
07-28-2010 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by Phat
07-28-2010 1:52 PM


Re: Parables 101 in differing contexts
Phat writes:

Ringo writes:

We should always be asking ourselves, "Did I do all that I can do with what was given to me?"


*sigh* Yes, yes, I know. The only issue I have is WHO determines all I can or should do?

I answered that. I said that "WE should always be asking OURSELVES". YOU have to determine all that YOU can do whether anybody else cares or not. YOU have to decide whether YOU are satisfied with YOUR performance, whether your motivation is to keep your job or to feel good about yourself.

If you believe that Somebody is going to judge you some day, then YOU are the one who has to defend YOURSELF in front of that judge. It might be wise to have a better defence than, "Some say that trusting in Jesus is EVERYTHING and that doing the best that we can won't cut it."


Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by Phat, posted 07-28-2010 1:52 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 211 by Phat, posted 09-11-2020 11:08 AM ringo has responded

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 3611 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 163 of 229 (570783)
07-28-2010 9:17 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by jar
07-28-2010 11:02 AM


Re: The Parable of the Talents
The 'judgement' following the parable of the talents clearly explains god's expectations of our behaviour towards one another and the consequences of our behaviour on earth. This doesn't mean some of us and the master clearly did not live up to those expectations.
In this case the master would be represented as a goat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by jar, posted 07-28-2010 11:02 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by jar, posted 07-28-2010 9:27 PM pelican has responded

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 3611 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 164 of 229 (570785)
07-28-2010 9:27 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by Dr Adequate
07-28-2010 12:12 PM


People who repent towards the end of an ill-spent life (the "eleventh hour", as the text says) get the same heavenly reward as those who were obedient to God all along.

... and doesn't Jesus warn that we cannot know when the 'eleventh hour' will come?

Is that relevant?


I take the 11th hour to mean time approaching death and we cannot know when this is. I think most people imagine repenting and asking for forgiveness on our death beds but death is usually unexpected. I believe Jesus is saying repent now because you never know.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-28-2010 12:12 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32915
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 165 of 229 (570786)
07-28-2010 9:27 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by pelican
07-28-2010 9:17 PM


Re: The Parable of the Talents
pelican writes:

This doesn't mean some of us and the master clearly did not live up to those expectations.
In this case the master would be represented as a goat.

You're mixing parables. It's not a Chinese restaurant where you get to pick one from column one and two from column two.

Each parable stands on it's own. There is nothing in any of the four parables that tells us anything about how the master in the Talents parable would be judged or even if he would be judged. In fact in the parable of the Talents the master is the judge.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by pelican, posted 07-28-2010 9:17 PM pelican has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by pelican, posted 07-28-2010 10:17 PM jar has not yet responded

  
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