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Author Topic:   Parables 101
Phat
Member
Posts: 14597
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 211 of 229 (882118)
09-11-2020 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 162 by ringo
07-28-2010 2:11 PM


Re: Parables 101 in differing contexts
ringo writes:

If you believe that Somebody is going to judge you some day, then YOU are the one who has to defend YOURSELF in front of that judge.

So lets talk about the Widow with two mites.

Luke 21:1-4 writes:

And He looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the treasury, 2 and He saw also a certain poor widow putting in two mites. 3 So He said, "Truly I say to you that this poor widow has put in more than all; 4 for all these out of their abundance have put in offerings for God, but she out of her poverty put in all the livelihood that she had."
NKJV

Are we in fact *all* commanded to do likewise? What does the parable imply?


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by ringo, posted 07-28-2010 2:11 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 213 by ringo, posted 09-11-2020 12:31 PM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14597
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 212 of 229 (882119)
09-11-2020 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 150 by jar
07-28-2010 9:07 AM


Re: Parables 101 revisited
I appreciate you charging me to think more deeply about what I write. It is a good exercise.

jar writes:

Remember, divisions such as chapters are a new invention, at the time these things were written this was not broken down into chapters, it was just one long manuscript.

This lesson actually starts at the end of what is now Chapter 24. There it points out that none of us know when the end may come, either our personal end or the Second Coming. We are told that we must live our charge as though each day was our last opportunity.

When you look at all of the parables in Matthew 24-25 there is a pattern, they all say that we cannot know what the future will bring, that we must be prepared, that each of us must do the best we can with what we are given, and that in judgment, professions of faith and worship, belief, just won't cut it.

Good point.
jar writes:

We are expected to use the talents given us.

Yes. And the house that was hopefully given to me (unless we have to sell it to take care of Mom) is a sancuary where my 60 year old diabetic body can rest and recuperate so that I may be of value to myself and others.
jar writes:

But the message is not that you should just do what is needed for YOU to survive. The message is that we are but stewards. As is said at the offering "Of thine own have we given thee". We are expected to use the gifts we have been given, whether ten talents, five talents or just one talent to increase, to help, to do for the least of these.

I cant argue with that.
jar writes:

When you don't use the talent that you were given you might as well bury it in the ground.

I seek to expand my talent through prayer, fasting, introspection and ultimately action.
jar writes:

Go back and look again at this section, beginning at Matthew 24:45.

This is a whole series of parables centered on the idea that we each much do our duty. There is the contrast between the servant left in charge in the masters absence, then the Ten Virgins, this one (the Talents) and it ends with the Sheep and the Goats.

The one common thread throughout all of them is that you will be judged based on your behavior.

My behavior does include prayer.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by jar, posted 07-28-2010 9:07 AM jar has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18755
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 213 of 229 (882121)
09-11-2020 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by Phat
09-11-2020 11:08 AM


Re: Parables 101 in differing contexts
Phat writes:

What does the parable imply?


It's not a parable. It's an actual event in the life of Jesus.

Phat writes:

Are we in fact *all* commanded to do likewise?


What kind of pick-and-choose God do you believe in? Don't you think He would judge everybody on the same scale?

Notice that the rich men put in "offerings" for God. ("I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse.") Doesn't that sound like trying to buy your way into heaven?

Also notice that the poor widow put in "more than all." She put in all of her worldly goods AND she put in her trust.


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by Phat, posted 09-11-2020 11:08 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by Phat, posted 09-11-2020 1:44 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14597
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 214 of 229 (882122)
09-11-2020 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by ringo
09-11-2020 12:31 PM


Re: Parables 101 in differing contexts
Also notice that the poor widow put in "more than all." She put in all of her worldly goods AND she put in her trust.
And she was commended for it. But He did not then say "go and do likewise". Notice his exchange with Zacchaeus.

Luke 19:1-10 writes:

Then Jesus entered and passed through Jericho. 2 Now behold, there was a man named Zacchaeus who was a chief tax collector, and he was rich. 3 And he sought to see who Jesus was, but could not because of the crowd, for he was of short stature. 4 So he ran ahead and climbed up into a sycamore tree to see Him, for He was going to pass that way. 5 And when Jesus came to the place, He looked up and saw him, and said to him, "Zacchaeus, make haste and come down, for today I must stay at your house." 6 So he made haste and came down, and received Him joyfully. 7 But when they saw it, they all complained, saying,"He has gone to be a guest with a man who is a sinner."

8 Then Zacchaeus stood and said to the Lord, "Look, Lord, I give half of my goods to the poor; and if I have taken anything from anyone by false accusation, I restore fourfold."

9 And Jesus said to him, "Today salvation has come to this house, because he also is a son of Abraham; 10 for the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost."
NKJV


  • Zacchaeus negotiated the terms and Jesus approved. Only 1/2 was mentioned. Yet Jesus declared that salvation had come to that house.

    Clearly what was said to One rich young ruler did not apply to all rich people. And note Zacchaeus confidence that he had never knowingly defrauded anyone.


    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killosophy


  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 213 by ringo, posted 09-11-2020 12:31 PM ringo has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 215 by ringo, posted 09-11-2020 8:43 PM Phat has responded

      
    ringo
    Member
    Posts: 18755
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005
    Member Rating: 1.7


    Message 215 of 229 (882125)
    09-11-2020 8:43 PM
    Reply to: Message 214 by Phat
    09-11-2020 1:44 PM


    Re: Parables 101 in differing contexts
    Phat writes:

    But He did not then say "go and do likewise".


    Why would He have to? You wouldn't expect Him to say, "This is good and that is bad. Now take your pick." Isn't it a foregone conclusion that He would automatically expect you to do good?

    Phat writes:

    Zacchaeus negotiated the terms and Jesus approved. Only 1/2 was mentioned.


    In that case, Jesus was contradicting Himself. He didn't tell the rich young ruler to sell half of what he had. He didn't commend the widow for giving one mite. He didn't kill Ananias and Sapphira for holding back half.

    Phat writes:

    Clearly what was said to One rich young ruler did not apply to all rich people.


    The early church didn't think that was clear.

    Why would Jesus have one standard for one person and a different standard for somebody else? You have Him contradicting Himself all over the place.

    Phat writes:

    And note Zacchaeus confidence that he had never knowingly defrauded anyone.


    He didn't say that. He said IF he had defrauded anybody he would make restitution fourfold.

    "I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 214 by Phat, posted 09-11-2020 1:44 PM Phat has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 216 by Phat, posted 09-12-2020 1:25 PM ringo has responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 14597
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 216 of 229 (882126)
    09-12-2020 1:25 PM
    Reply to: Message 215 by ringo
    09-11-2020 8:43 PM


    Re: Parables 101 in differing contexts
    ringo writes:

    In that case, Jesus was contradicting Himself. He didn't tell the rich young ruler to sell half of what he had. He didn't commend the widow for giving one mite. He didn't kill Ananias and Sapphira for holding back half.

    Sounds as if you too are playing apologist and rationalizing what Jesus must have meant. At the very least you are dancing.

    Speaking of apologists, here is what one respectable guy said: Does Jesus Expect His Followers to Give Up All of Their Possessions?

    quote:
    It’s true that Jesus told the rich young ruler to give up his wealth and follow Him ( Mark 10:21 ). On another occasion, Jesus said, “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God” 1 ( Mark 10:25 ).

    On other occasions, Jesus didn’t rebuke friends who owned property or command them to sell their homes and businesses. In fact, He often ate with people and stayed at their homes. Friends like Mary and Martha or Zacchaeus the publican were clearly not among the poor. He was even buried in the newly excavated tomb of Joseph of Arimathea, a wealthy member of the Sanhedrin.

    So why, then, did Jesus set up what seems to be such a stringent requirement for this particular young man? ( Matthew 19:16-22; Mark 10:17-31; Luke 18:18-30 ).

    Jesus knew the young man’s heart. He knew that he was looking for a way to earn his salvation on his own terms. He may have thought that the Master would give him a specific task or good deed to perform that would win eternal life, one that wouldn’t require him to humble himself and unconditionally set his life under the authority of Christ. Instead, Jesus set up a requirement that clearly illustrated the basic issue: the rich young man’s desire to retain control of his life.

    Jesus wasn’t implying that salvation can actually be earned by good deeds. Even if the rich young ruler would have given away his riches and followed Christ, he wouldn’t have earned his salvation. However, if he had done so, he would have surrendered his desire for autonomy and acknowledged God’s authority to do what He wanted with his life.

    Jesus felt compassion for this young man. But because He knew that the ruler was seeking to manipulate God, He had no choice but to send him away with a clear awareness of his failure.

    The Bible makes it clear that possession of wealth involves responsibility, including a responsibility to be compassionate to the poor. But the Bible doesn’t say that all Christians should sell everything they have and give the proceeds to the poor.


    The only reason you feel that it does is because it is what you believe anyway...imagining what a great world it could be if everyone did so.


    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killosophy


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 215 by ringo, posted 09-11-2020 8:43 PM ringo has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 217 by AZPaul3, posted 09-12-2020 2:46 PM Phat has responded
     Message 218 by ringo, posted 09-12-2020 9:22 PM Phat has responded

      
    AZPaul3
    Member
    Posts: 5309
    From: Phoenix
    Joined: 11-06-2006
    Member Rating: 2.7


    (1)
    Message 217 of 229 (882130)
    09-12-2020 2:46 PM
    Reply to: Message 216 by Phat
    09-12-2020 1:25 PM


    Re: Parables 101 in differing contexts
    Jesus knew the young man’s heart. He knew that he was looking for a way to earn his salvation on his own terms.

    So Jesus knew something the rest of the audience did not. Kinda like one of those old Perry Mason dramas.

    If so then why wasn't this explained in the narrative? Instead of punishing the young man for being duplicitous the narrative punishes him for being rich and not giving it all. Wrong message sent. Or wrong interpretation.


    Factio Republicana delenda est.
    I am antifa.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 216 by Phat, posted 09-12-2020 1:25 PM Phat has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 219 by Phat, posted 09-13-2020 10:20 AM AZPaul3 has responded

      
    ringo
    Member
    Posts: 18755
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005
    Member Rating: 1.7


    Message 218 of 229 (882138)
    09-12-2020 9:22 PM
    Reply to: Message 216 by Phat
    09-12-2020 1:25 PM


    Re: Parables 101 in differing contexts
    Phat writes:

    Sounds as if you too are playing apologist and rationalizing what Jesus must have meant. At the very least you are dancing.


    Not at all. I'm pointing out that if YOUR interpretation of Zacchaeus is valid, then Jesus contradicted Himself. If Jesus DIDN'T contradict Himself, your interpretation of Zacchaeus must be invalid.

    Phat writes:

    Speaking of apologists, here is what one respectable guy said: blah blah blah...


    Your apologist doesn't explain why the early church believed that Jesus meant what He said.

    Your apologist also lies through his teeth: "Even if the rich young ruler would have given away his riches and followed Christ, he wouldn’t have earned his salvation." That's EXACTLY what Jesus said WOULD happen.

    Phat writes:

    The only reason you feel that it does is because it is what you believe anyway...imagining what a great world it could be if everyone did so.


    Stop lying. I have told you many times that I don't believe in any "great world".

    "I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 216 by Phat, posted 09-12-2020 1:25 PM Phat has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 220 by Phat, posted 09-13-2020 10:30 AM ringo has responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 14597
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 219 of 229 (882140)
    09-13-2020 10:20 AM
    Reply to: Message 217 by AZPaul3
    09-12-2020 2:46 PM


    Re: Parables 101 in differing contexts
    Dan,RBC Apologist writes:

    Jesus knew the young man’s heart. He knew that he was looking for a way to earn his salvation on his own terms.

    AZPaul3 writes:

    So Jesus knew something the rest of the audience did not. Kinda like one of those old Perry Mason dramas.

    If so then why wasn't this explained in the narrative? Instead of punishing the young man for being duplicitous the narrative punishes him for being rich and not giving it all. Wrong message sent. Or wrong interpretation.

    For us wannabe apologists out there, it is kinda assumed that Jesus knows things that the rest of the audience is basically unenlightened about. And for the record, we don't believe that the Bible has many "god characters" in it.

    The vast majority of us are not liars, though we tend to protect our "liars" and forgive them much quicker than the political Left does when a liar is exposed. Human nature is what it is. Jesus was not just God incarnate--He was human. And another error that ringo makes is when he assumes that Jesus has the same command for everybody. That can clearly be proven false through scripture. And why not? Do you expect everyone you talk to to need the same counsel?


    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killosophy


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 217 by AZPaul3, posted 09-12-2020 2:46 PM AZPaul3 has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 221 by Tangle, posted 09-13-2020 11:14 AM Phat has not yet responded
     Message 222 by AZPaul3, posted 09-13-2020 12:18 PM Phat has responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 14597
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 220 of 229 (882141)
    09-13-2020 10:30 AM
    Reply to: Message 218 by ringo
    09-12-2020 9:22 PM


    Re: Parables 101 in differing contexts
    ringo writes:

    I have told you many times that I don't believe in any "great world".

    Nor do I. But I DO believe in a Great God.


    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killosophy


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 218 by ringo, posted 09-12-2020 9:22 PM ringo has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 224 by ringo, posted 09-13-2020 3:11 PM Phat has responded

      
    Tangle
    Member
    Posts: 7911
    From: UK
    Joined: 10-07-2011
    Member Rating: 2.8


    (2)
    Message 221 of 229 (882142)
    09-13-2020 11:14 AM
    Reply to: Message 219 by Phat
    09-13-2020 10:20 AM


    Re: Parables 101 in differing contexts
    Phat writes:

    For us wannabe apologists out there, it is kinda assumed that Jesus knows things that the rest of the audience is basically unenlightened about.

    You do realise that this apologist has just made all this up don't you?

    quote:
    Jesus knew the young man’s heart. He knew that he was looking for a way to earn his salvation on his own terms. He may have thought that the Master would give him a specific task or good deed to perform that would win eternal life, one that wouldn’t require him to humble himself and unconditionally set his life under the authority of Christ. Instead, Jesus set up a requirement that clearly illustrated the basic issue: the rich young man’s desire to retain control of his life.

    Jesus wasn’t implying that salvation can actually be earned by good deeds. Even if the rich young ruler would have given away his riches and followed Christ, he wouldn’t have earned his salvation. However, if he had done so, he would have surrendered his desire for autonomy and acknowledged God’s authority to do what He wanted with his life.

    Jesus felt compassion for this young man. But because He knew that the ruler was seeking to manipulate God, He had no choice but to send him away with a clear awareness of his failure.


    He's pretending to know the mind of god and spooling out a pile of hokum that he wants to feel right about.

    He knows no more than you, Ringo, me and the gatepost. All we have is what's written, take it at face value or not at all, stop spinning.


    Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

    "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

    "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
    - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 219 by Phat, posted 09-13-2020 10:20 AM Phat has not yet responded

      
    AZPaul3
    Member
    Posts: 5309
    From: Phoenix
    Joined: 11-06-2006
    Member Rating: 2.7


    (2)
    Message 222 of 229 (882143)
    09-13-2020 12:18 PM
    Reply to: Message 219 by Phat
    09-13-2020 10:20 AM


    Re: Parables 101 in differing contexts
    I fail to see where this response has anything to do with the issue presented.

    For us wannabe apologists out there, it is kinda assumed that Jesus knows things that the rest of the audience is basically unenlightened about.

    The issue, Phat, is the criteria used to judge the victim. The text written in the parable condemns the kid for being rich and not giving it ALL away.

    Your apologist says, no, that's not the reason (which is killer harsh on ALL rich people trying to be christian). It was because the kid was being duplicitous, dishonest in his inquiry about what it takes to be saved.

    Nowhere in the narrative is this theme expressed. It’s bogus.

    Your apologist was trying to finesse away the harsh criticism of the parable showing that to be saved, one (and by one it is implied everyone) has to give up everything to preach and perform good works to be saved.

    That is harsh. So to soften it a bit your apologist adds elements not in the original. The kid is condemned for his unstated, un-evidenced, duplicity of mind and not for being miserly. Rich folks get another break from the requirements of the creed.

    What I’m doing, Phat, is calling your apologist out for being duplicitous himself.

    What the parable says on its face is too harsh a judgement, say some, for just being a rich person so change the story to make the punishment for something else. Make the punishment for ANYTHING other than just being rich. Condemned as "rich" sends a bad vibe through the mega-churches and their pastors.

    With your apologist's interpretation the rich can keep their wealth and can now throw a few coins at the poor feeling truly delighted and religiously fulfilled knowing they are doing good works.

    And why not? Do you expect everyone you talk to to need the same counsel?

    I should think god, holding the keys to the kingdom, would be very consistent in his messages and the requirements for entry. Specifics may very by individual story but a consistent theme across the canvass should be expected.

    Rich man who refuses to give it all - condemned.
    Rich man willingly gives half and corrects his errors - salvation granted.
    Poor old widow donates 2 coins which represent her entire worth - salvation granted.
    (would the judgement be the same if she had donated only one?)
    A couple sell their property and donate all but a portion - condemned.

    [aside]

    WTF!?

    I sell my house for $100 and donate $90 to the church.

    Who is this jew to tell me I'm condemned to hell? Just kill me right in my tracks, fall down dead because I gave generously but not all?! More than the guy who gave only half and was saved? And you kill my wife, too!

    Consistent much, christianity? No wonder you're lost to this world.

    [/aside]

    Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


    Factio Republicana delenda est.
    I am antifa.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 219 by Phat, posted 09-13-2020 10:20 AM Phat has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 223 by Phat, posted 09-13-2020 2:49 PM AZPaul3 has responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 14597
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 223 of 229 (882148)
    09-13-2020 2:49 PM
    Reply to: Message 222 by AZPaul3
    09-13-2020 12:18 PM


    Re: Parables 101 in differing contexts
    I've always argued that Ananias and Saphira essentially killed themselves through being in a group of strong and truthful believers where lying was a grievous sin against the Holy Spirit. It was not the money they kept back that was the issue. It was lying about it.

    It would be as if I told everyone at EvC that I had given everything up to the Lord and yet still kept my house.

    I believe that God wouldn't be mad that I had kept my house. He would be mad that I misrepresented my obedience and sacrifice by telling everyone I gave up everything and lying about it. And my wife, if I had one, would be guilty for defending my lie.


    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killosophy


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 222 by AZPaul3, posted 09-13-2020 12:18 PM AZPaul3 has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 225 by ringo, posted 09-13-2020 3:17 PM Phat has not yet responded
     Message 226 by AZPaul3, posted 09-13-2020 6:05 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    ringo
    Member
    Posts: 18755
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005
    Member Rating: 1.7


    Message 224 of 229 (882150)
    09-13-2020 3:11 PM
    Reply to: Message 220 by Phat
    09-13-2020 10:30 AM


    Re: Parables 101 in differing contexts
    Phat writes:

    ringo writes:

    I have told you many times that I don't believe in any "great world".


    Nor do I. But I DO believe in a Great God.

    Why do you always do that Gish Gallop? That has NOTHING to do with what we were talking about. Go back and answer the post you quoted. Respond to the bold-faced lie that your apologist told.

    "I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 220 by Phat, posted 09-13-2020 10:30 AM Phat has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 227 by Phat, posted 09-15-2020 6:27 AM ringo has responded

      
    ringo
    Member
    Posts: 18755
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005
    Member Rating: 1.7


    Message 225 of 229 (882152)
    09-13-2020 3:17 PM
    Reply to: Message 223 by Phat
    09-13-2020 2:49 PM


    Re: Parables 101 in differing contexts
    That's not the way the writer of Acts told it. He said they were punished for "A AND B". He did not say "A but not B".

    Your argument is like saying murder is okay but don't you dare LIE about it. That would be REALLY bad.


    "I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 223 by Phat, posted 09-13-2020 2:49 PM Phat has not yet responded

      
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