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Author Topic:   Parables 101
AZPaul3
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Posts: 5309
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 226 of 229 (882154)
09-13-2020 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by Phat
09-13-2020 2:49 PM


Re: Parables 101 in differing contexts
I've always argued that Ananias and Saphira essentially killed themselves,

Yeah, those early christians didn't have anything over Chicago mob bosses.

"You make the donation to our church?"
"Yes, I will. I have property out east I can sell."
"We accept. And when you sell this property we will take ALL the proceeds. Every mite ... or you and wifey here git made dead. Capisce?"

And now Peter has god-like zap'em-dead powers?

You christians got more gods than the Hindus.


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by Phat, posted 09-13-2020 2:49 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14597
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 227 of 229 (882189)
09-15-2020 6:27 AM
Reply to: Message 224 by ringo
09-13-2020 3:11 PM


Re: Parables 101 in differing contexts
The apologist was being a bit vague, but was not lying. It is not simply the action of giving all that you have away to the poor that determines your salvation. It is following Jesus. (and not just His message either)
  • Note how the rich young ruler never offered to follow Jesus to begin with. What do you think would have happened had Jesus simply said to him, "There is one thing you need to do. Follow me."

    That may well be all that is needed for some to find eternal life. But not this rich one. Notice also that Jesus didn't say "how hard it is for anyone who isn't fully broke to find eternal life." Did Jesus command Mary & Martha to sell everything they had? How about the Roman Centurion? How about Zaccheus?Clearly not.

    Clearly you don't understand the contexts because you don't understand Jesus. All that you took was the message. You just like the idea of rich people giving everything away to the poor people.


    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killosophy


  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 224 by ringo, posted 09-13-2020 3:11 PM ringo has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 228 by AZPaul3, posted 09-15-2020 12:14 PM Phat has not yet responded
     Message 229 by ringo, posted 09-15-2020 12:43 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    AZPaul3
    Member
    Posts: 5309
    From: Phoenix
    Joined: 11-06-2006
    Member Rating: 2.7


    (2)
    Message 228 of 229 (882204)
    09-15-2020 12:14 PM
    Reply to: Message 227 by Phat
    09-15-2020 6:27 AM


    Re: Parables 101 in differing contexts
    You just like the idea of rich people giving everything away to the poor people.

    Regardless of your apologist's contortions with the syntax of scripture, that is precisely what your god commands you to do ... in multiple places throughout the gospels. So often is this command given to those who would follow him it is rather dishonest to try to twist it into some kind of suggestion. It is a direct command.


    Factio Republicana delenda est.
    I am antifa.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 227 by Phat, posted 09-15-2020 6:27 AM Phat has not yet responded

      
    ringo
    Member
    Posts: 18755
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005
    Member Rating: 1.7


    (1)
    Message 229 of 229 (882209)
    09-15-2020 12:43 PM
    Reply to: Message 227 by Phat
    09-15-2020 6:27 AM


    Re: Parables 101 in differing contexts
    Phat writes:

    The apologist was being a bit vague, but was not lying.


    Nothing vague about it. It was a flat-out bold-faced lie:
    Rich young ruler: "Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?"

    Jesus: "One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me."

    Apologist: "Even if the rich young ruler would have given away his riches and followed Christ, he wouldn’t have earned his salvation."


    He contradicted Jesus directly and completely. There's no getting around that.

    Phat writes:

    It is not simply the action of giving all that you have away to the poor that determines your salvation.


    Jesus said it is.

    Phat writes:

    It is following Jesus.


    That IS following Jesus. Literally. It is what He did.

    Phat writes:

    Note how the rich young ruler never offered to follow Jesus to begin with.


    He asked what he had to do to go to heaven.

    Phat writes:

    What do you think would have happened had Jesus simply said to him, "There is one thing you need to do. Follow me."


    He would have understood what Jesus meant. He would not have expected to "follow" Jesus on his chauffeur-driven camel with his retinue of servants.

    Phat writes:

    Did Jesus command Mary & Martha to sell everything they had?


    Jesus was not a one-trick pony. He didn't repeat one thing ad nauseam.

    Phat writes:

    How about the Roman Centurion? How about Zaccheus?


    How about the early church? Why did they do what Jesus said if it was "clear" that He didn't mean it for everybody. The point of giving up everything was to put your trust in God, not in your own riches.

    Phat writes:

    Clearly you don't understand the contexts because you don't understand Jesus.


    I have discussed the contexts in some detail. You have not. Before you can brag about your lofty levels of understanding, you need to go back and answer your myriad of unanswered posts.

    Phat writes:

    All that you took was the message.


    The message is what matters.

    "I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 227 by Phat, posted 09-15-2020 6:27 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
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