The Trinity

Not only is it God paying God with God for something Godd can easily do, but it was obviously a payement that was returned marked "Insufficient funds". If it had been payment for the sins of MAN, then the payment was made, but the Fundies all tell us that it was not enough, and only SOME folk got their tickets punched. God only paid some of the fines. LOL

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Only because you want it to. In fact it describes a person as a person and the church has known that from the beginning. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

thats why its considered to be a "salvation" in part from jesus because neither he nor god had nothing to do with our errors or for the main part adam and eve's errors. Adam and Eve did the damage NOT US. WE inherited their act of sinning but its not because of "US" that sin came in to the world. One "perfect" man disobeyed god and basically tilt the scale to sin(being evil) and for the rest of the descendants(us) but we werent the ones who tilted it ..it was Adam and Eve who did. I can hear where your coming from ..we are sinners too. but the difference is, is that Adam and Eve (being perfect BEFORE the act) tilted this scale to sin. so only a perfect man can tilt it back, because the "worth" of adam was "perfect" so only a person with the same "wealth" can do the oposite. thats why in the bible it talks about price sometimes in regards to jesus.(ill post scriptures in a bit) Jesus didnt have to come down here, yet he did anyway. Ex. Heroes. there are so many ppl who risk their lives(not being a cop or anything that gets paid) yet they save ppl's lives everyday. they most likely dont have NOTHING to do with the victims or ppl they save yet they do it anyway. i.e salvation. thats why Jesus is our savior because he "rescued" us from sin.

You have to pay your own deductible unless you're a member of the "special" insurance plan.

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Something strange happened here. In my post #47 I was replying to Ringo's post #46, I thought, but now jar's #46 is there instead, and mine now appears to be answering my own post #45 though I'm quoting Ringo. Where did Ringo's #46 go?Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Actually Fallen IS in the Bible
heres a start to that:Revelation 2:5 :
[5] Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. care to show us these scriptures? again where is the proof? where in the scriptures?digging up references is all about what a debate is or a discussion is about if you think such discussions arent worth doing then why post? care to explain it? its been shown that a "legion" can go in to one person(i.e. jesus and legion where he ordered them to get out of the man's body) again that can interpreted as a personification of his the holy spirit, we need to have something clear.. for god sakes theres a book called "Proverbs" you really think the writers of the bible didnt use metaphors, personafications, symbolism and illustrations (mainly jesus) to explain their teachings?Edited by SK, : No reason given.Edited by SK, : No reason given.

You're changing horses in mid-stream. First you were talking about compensation for damages and now you're talking about "rescue". Two completely different things.I suggest you back away from the dogma and really think about it.But that isn't the topic here. Can we get back to the trinity...?

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are you saying (in the car damage example) a friend cant step in and "rescue" you from the price you have to for damaging the victim's car? even though your friend has NOTHING to do with the accident?but nonetheless yes we are drifting off topic

But that isn't the scenario that you've been describing. You've been saying that the compensation can only be paid by Jesus - that He must pay it or it won't be paid.That's the antithesis of justice. Edited by AdminPD, : Off Topic Warning

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I meant Fallen in the sense of Original Sin. THAT's not in the Bible. Sorry I was confusing. Jesus in the above passage is simply warning the church of having fallen from their first zeal for Him.For the rest, OK I guess I'll have to dig up the scriptures. It will take a while. I figure if you just READ the Bible you might notice them yourself after all now that I've told you they are there. Well if you've made up your mind that he didn't die, what can I say? Scripture says he died. The church believes he died. Really died. He had to die to pay for our sins, since "the wages of sin is death" and he was paying for our sins. Scripture says he laid down his life -- that means died -- of his own free will. God forsook him and he died. He actually died. He came back because all it took for him to pay for our sins was dying itself in our place. Because he himself was personally sinless he couldn't die for himself but only for us. He died bearing OUR sins. He paid for them by dying in our place. He paid for our sins and then God returned him to life, which he could do because he was sinless. Actually there are three separate statements about Who brought Him back to life, one says He Himself did, one says God the Father did, one says the HOly Spirit did -- all of them being God. Well, sure, the "legion" of demons are all invisible spirits who can penetrate and indwell and even possess human beings. They are also persons or personalities, remember? Jesus spoke to them. They talked to him, they recognized him. Unlike the Holy Spirit, however, they are merely finite personalities. They cannot be everywhere at once as the Holy Spirit can. One of them can only occupy one person or animal at a time, and dozens or hundreds or even thousands can occupy one person, which is what "legion" implies. But the Holy Spirit is One God, One Person, omnipresent, everywhere at once, pure spirit, and a personality too, who can indwell billions at one time. I know a personifcation when I see it and that isn't one.{edit: A personification of God is like where it says in Genesis that He was walking in the garden after Adam and Eve's sin, although that COULD have been an actual theophany or appearance of Christ; or like where God is spoken of as having hands -- as in "He stretched out His hand" or eyes or other body parts although scripture clearly says God is invisible SPirit.}Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

SK, please pay attention to who you attribute quotes to. You attributed a quote to "Trinity" that I believe was actually Faith's comment and earlier attributed quotes to Faith that were not hers.I suggest you edit Message 51 and correct the error and note the change.There is a "Practice Makes Perfect" forum which will allow you to familiarize yourself with the EvC software and layout. You will find the link in the purple signature block below.Please direct any comments concerning this Admin msg to the Moderation Thread.
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Usually, in a well-conducted debate, speakers are either emotionally uncommitted or can preserve sufficient detachment to maintain a coolly academic approach.-- Encylopedia Brittanica, on debate

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not everybody interprets the same way you do. Incase you didnt know, the Bible is really big, so you have to be specific as to what scripture your talking about and what scripture describes what you say, so far all we have is heresay from you.

ok show us other examples in the bible that show its a personi got another question ....in trinity..., 3 beings ...do they each have equal power?

I'd be interested in knowing how many people believe Yeshua, Galilean carpenter's son and longtime synagogue participant, walked around thinking of himself as the Second Person of the Trinity.

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ArcherAll species are transitional.

That's a bit too humanistic if you ask me. What's ice? What's water? What is vapor? Aren't they all forms of H2O? Aren't they the exact same thing just different characteristics? Is one greater than the other?You can't trivialize the Trinity with such trite conceptions, in my opinion.

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"There is not in all America a more dangerous trait than the deification of mere smartness unaccompanied by any sense of moral responsibility." -Theodore Roosevelt