Bible Study Cover to Cover

You kidding? From my experience, kids talk this way also.

It says to avoid behavior which is inflamatory.Do you actually think your flimsy tissue of an excuse helped his case ? I don't.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

You heard it from Taz folks. Preaching or just recounting a story rather than debating is OKAY!Now, where was I ? Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Yes.

I would like to back up to the matter of Abram (Abraham).The backround of Abram's calling by God is the Tower of Babel. Here at the Tower of Babel God could not get through with the created race. So to fulfill His plans He starts a new line, a new race so to speak. He initiates the CALLED race. Abram is God giving up on the Adamic created race and initiating the called race headed by Abram.The dark backround of Babel is the reason for the starting of God , afresh, with the race under the called Abram.But you have to be careful. When I say God gave up on the created race I do not mean it absolutely. He is calling Abram out of Chaldee with a view to eventually blessing the Adamic race. In Abram all the famnilies of the earth will be blessed. In other words God will reach around again through Abram, head of the called race, in order to bless the Adam race.Now some of us Christians speak of the Fall of Man. But actually it is better to see in Genesis about four falls. Man kind of fell down and down and down four times. The last of these was the Tower of Babel incident. Then God gave up in a way and calls a new race headed by Abram.You'll have to read about it again. You fortunate folks. How many splendid hours of reading you have to look forward to in this book the BIBLE !

Staying on topic might be a nice change.

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It says to avoid behavior which is inflamatory.

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I personally do not see how dropping the F-bomb or any other "swear" word is "inflammatory".
Now if I called someone on the board a "fucking asshole", that would be inflammatory.

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You heard it from Taz folks. Preaching or just recounting a story rather than debating is OKAY!

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Have you even read the OP? Have you read any of Mod's previous posts? So Mod was staying with the OP. He isn't preaching. He is giving his feedback on particular chapters of the bible. Now if you were in topic you might want to try to counter his criticism. Instead of wasting posts complaining about bad words.So, you ahve anything on topic? ANYTHING?

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

Now without quoting too much, I would like to give a little synopsis of the area around Genesis 12..We should not think that Abram was full of faith. The entire record shows that he hesitated, daoubted, dragged his feet, and was reluctant to answer God's call.Do not think of "father Abram" as that much unlike the typical person. He was full of doubts after God called him to depart his land, his father's house, his people, and to go to a land that God would reveal to him. Abram obeyed God's call only reluctantly.I think that reading between the lines we see that his dad may have been a hindrance. His brother Haran may have been a hindrance also. The Bible says that after the death of this or that person Abram moves on.You also do not see God telling Abram right away WHERE he is going. There is no map. In a sense God Himself was Abram's map. He must have moved according to his fellowship with God. When he felt that he arrived at a place where God was happy, he stayed there. Sometimes THERE he erected an altar and called on the name of God.This is a picture, I believe, of a man following God by the presence of God. He does not know exactly WHERE he is being led. But he is following his fellowship with God somehow.The first real test to this is the .... FAMINE. The famine causes Abram to have to depart down into Egypt. Not only does he get off track and assume that he has to go to Egypt. He is persuaded that he has to lie about his wife through whom part of God's promise is to be fulfilled, is to come. He almost sacrifrices his wife to protect himself.We might ask - "What about God's promise to you Abram? What about the SEED and what about the land and the descendents?"Abram's weakness is revealed in the Egypt affair. However, God is faithful. God reveals that Sarai is not his sister but his wife. In the midst of a famine Abram is sent away with loads of material wealth and a rebuke for lying about his wife.God has taken Abram through this test. Abram must have come out of Egypt feeling like a poor unbelieving fool. Yet God has been faithful and Abram has leaned a big lesson. God is well able to provide ALL of Abram's needs even in famine.The point here is that God will protect Abram for the sake of God's promise. Abram need not be worried. The well being of his prophet is to the vested interest of God.You'll have to drop down somewhere in Genesis 12 or so to read about it.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

I am willing to forgive Modulous.I have. Even if he doesn't need or care for it, I am willing to forget it.Now I am speaking about going through the Bible. But I am not doing it in my customary fashion. I am making informal comments.I am not stopping to quote every relevant passage. Some of this is according to my memory without opening up the Bible, at least yet. I remember a lot because I have studied this Bible with great teachers and on my own for many years.To not always provide quotation often causes errors. But you all will have to read it to catch my errors. So it is a win win for me.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Now we are talking about going through the Bible cover to cover.I don't expect to really do that. But some thoughts on Genesis are in order.Now I will informally contribute some things. Some of you will be able to hear it. Others will not be able to. Now Abram pitches his tent inbetween two places - Ai and Bethel. Ai means "heap of ruins" or something close. Bethel means "house of God".Now this to some of us is not insgnificant. The Bible ends with the New Jerusalem as the house of God. It starts with the fall and ruin of man because of the curse brought on at Adam's failure.The RUIN is behind to the rear of Abram. And the house of God is before him. Check me out on this. I think one is on the west and one is on the east. This is kind of loose and informal until I get called on the carpet for it.The picture here is that behind Abram is the world in a heap of ruins because of the fall. Before the man of faith is the house of God because of God's promises. Abram is on a journey. from the ruination of mankind and his world to Bethel - the house of God. That is a full salvation where God and man are together.Now this is what I really want to say to those who can receive it. A good way, listen ... a good way to read the BIBLE is to get a firm grasp of the destination.I mean this. First read the 21rst and 22nd chapter of Revelation. No you will not understand it all. But you will get a general picture of WHERE the Bible is GOING. You see the DESTINATIION. You see the CLIMAX of the whole revelation of God. Read the last two chapters of the Bible. Read it often.Having DONE that then back to where you are in the Bible, Genesis, Exodus, Psalms, EZRA, Luke, Acts, or where ever you may be at the time. Then remember it is to THIS Conclusion that EVERYTHING is moving. This New Jerusalem is the culmination. She is the climax and ultimate destiny.In other words - ALL that God is doing throughout the whole Bible has THIS New Jerusalem in view. This is what it is all for. This is the direction all things are going towards.It is recommended that you grasp WHERE everything ends up in Revelation 21 and 22. It is recommended that you remind yourself "THis is how it is all going to end. And it is this that God is constantly working towards."Grasp something of the ultimate conclusion. And then keep your eyes on that through all the twists and turns of everything that happens in the Bible. It is all for the New Jerusalem. It is all headed in that direction and concludes at that destination.This keeps you on track in your reading through the Bible. It is all for the buildng and establishing of this eternal city where God and man are one - New Jerusalem.Try it. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

In Genesis 12 Abram builds an altar for the first time (Gen. 12:7). The altar signifies Abram is living by faith. He serves God and all he has is for God. Abram is offering to God of what he has.This is at least Abram's desire - to live for God; to live unto God; to offering his life and all that he has for God. Of course Abram will need perfecting by God to live this way. And immediately after offering to God in chapter 12 he is tested by the famine which causes him to go down into Egypt.If anyone can receive it, there is a deeper significance in the altar. The altar of Abram can be compared to the tower of Babel. The tower of Babel was made with bricks which the people burned (Gen. 11:3) In a deeper sense this is significant. Bricks for stone went into the building of the tower of Babel. And those bricks were burned. Abram used what was naturally found in the earth, stone.Remeber that the Bible concludes with a city New Jerusalem, built up with symbolic precious stones of 12 kinds. These are found naturally in the earth. But the bricks of the tower of Babel had to be burned.The earth was made to grow life. The burning of the earth to make bricks may signify then that the function of life was destroyed out of the earth. What was meant to grow life was burnt in order to make the proud tower in opposition to God, to make a name for mankind.Man's kingdom invariably has to destroy within man that which is there for the growing of the life of God. Man must be burnt, the capacity to receive God and to grow God must be exterminated out of man or man is no good for the worldly kingdom. In the rebellion of man all the people must be made rid of God and of the capacity to have God living in them. They must be thoroughly "burnt".However, man as he was created is made to grow God. He is made for the growing of God that God may build him up into a habitation of God - Bethel, the house of God. Abram altar was of the natural stones found in the earth. This is in contrast to the burnt bricks used for the tower of Babel.Man was created for the building up of the habitation of God - New Jerusalem seen symbolically in the closing pages of the Bible. But the enemy of God does not want God to build His habitation for God and man to dwell together. The rebellion causes all capacity of divine life and receiving to be "burnt" out of man to stake him up into a tower of spiritual death and godless pride.Here I hope some readers can see the constrast between Abram's altar of stones in Genesis 12 and the tower of Babel in Genesis 11.Remember that: Bethel means the house of God. Ai means the heap of ruins. In the eyes of God man's godless achievment is a heap of ruins. But the man of faith is journeying to the house of God - Bethel.In the house of God God grows in man, abides in man, and is the life of man in a joined and mingled way. He is the divine life dispensed into man for the building up of a mutual dwelling place for God and man.In the fall of man Satan collects the godless to burn all the divine life out of them and stake them up for a proud tower in opposition to God.The God of glory who appeared to people of faith and leading them from this ruination of the Satanic heap to the house of God, the New Jerusalem. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

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In Genesis 12 Abram builds an altar for the first time (Gen. 12:7). The altar signifies Abram is living by faith. He serves God and all he has is for God. Abram is offering to God of what he has.

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This is at least Abram's desire - to live for God; to live unto God; to offering his life and all that he has for God. Of course Abram will need perfecting by God to live this way. And immediately after offering to God in chapter 12 he is tested by the famine which causes him to go down into Egypt.

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If anyone can receive it, there is a deeper significance in the altar. The altar of Abram can be compared to the tower of Babel. The tower of Babel was made with bricks which the people burned (Gen. 11:3)

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I think they actually wanted to study the text and not the added dogma.You're inferring a lot on the text. The altar is a means of praising God and saying thank you, YHWH just gave him land. There's nothing in the text about Abraham's desires, offering his life and all he had for God, etc. The text also doesn't support the idea that the famine was a test. It was just a famine. "Immediately" after the altar ceremony Abraham continued towards Negev. The famine and Egypt are a start of another story. The text doesn't imply that the rain stopped right after the altar ceremony.The rest of your post is a sermon contrived to make a dogmatic religious point out of one line of text that isn't really saying much of anything other than Abraham built an altar.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

I lost interest after the expounder called God an MF.I guess I had little trouble seeing how that "dogma" was derived from the text. Somehow the pristine objectivity and freedom from subjective bias was lost. Can't imagine how. Not bad. Not real problem with that Purpledawn.Of course the very next few verses suggests a real test to his having everything he needs in the land. Ooops! What's this Lord ? It was hard to enjoy the land that God had given him if he couldn't find anything to eat.God needs to build up faith and trust in his prophet. Many experiences must be passed through. It is the same will all those who walk in faith following Abram. Sure, we give thanks and we have good intentions. But we trust in ourselves to do it. We have to learn that God is faithful. And God will do it. He will call not being as being. He will bring life from the dead.I think you are right that thanksgiving was in mind in Abram erecting an altar. I think I am right too. Abram intended to live for God and offer himself and his substance unto God. You can look at it that way if you wish.I am considering the whole big picture of Abram experience and all that is taught about him in the entire Bible. And your desire to splice and dice and "divide and conquer" the Bible making this and that part have nothing to do with each other, is in view of you pushing your dogma of skepticism.Got it.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Abram made an altar and pitched a tent. Both are significant to the man of faith.The tent signifies that he is a sojourner on the earth. It is not permenant.If it is not evident now it will eventually be evident that Abram was seeking something of another world to come. This especially is evident when Genesis takes a whole chapter to discrobe the particulars of his burial of Sarah his wife when she died. To most of us if we had such a promise of God to ourselves and our spouse, the death of the spouse would have meant the end of it all.Yet Moses takes great detail to discribe how Abraham secured a burial ground for his wife is a field full of nice trees.Hebrews says that Abraham looked for a city whose founder and architect was God. He looked for a better country. I think this means eventually he looked for a supernatural God ordained destination beyond anything this world could offer. I think Abram eventually understood that God's promise involved resurrection and supernatural power of some kind. On this earth he could only sojourn by faith as a temporary passer through. The land may be his someday. But it would be a kingdom of God with God's divine power as its source.

That is arbitrary of you to say that. It is the same book. How are you so sure that all that goes before is concluded and has nothing to do with this new section ?Plus the fact that when Abram has his unfortunate experience in Egypt, where does he go ? He goes BACK to where he was before.So we should not consider the connection lightly. After his hard lessons in Egypt, Abram comes out with his newly acquired wealth and ... You see the place of the first altar is the connection. The place where he first called on the name of the Lord Jehovah. The place between the "heap of ruins" (Ai) and "the house of God" (Bethel).So the stories are indeed connected. They are related. Abram arrives at a place where he fellowships with God. He moves away and descends down into Egypt in doubt and ubnbelief. Yet God is FAITHFUL and brings him out of there with all that he needs. Abram realizes that he needs to go BACK to the beginning. This beginning is where he made his first altar and called on God.Purpledawn's way of trying to cut and slice the story parts from each other darkens deeper significance of the writing.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.