Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,818 Year: 3,075/9,624 Month: 920/1,588 Week: 103/223 Day: 1/13 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Who can explain following:
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 31 of 82 (370589)
12-18-2006 2:53 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Hyroglyphx
12-17-2006 1:34 AM


Re: The Discovery Of Gravity
Cute.... Would Ug have understood that that the earth is round ...
I don't know, that's the trouble with pre-history.
The Ancient Greeks knew that the world was round and measured its circumference.
Of course, they thought it was a sphere, but then your passage says "circle", so you can't complain.
and that its suspended?
But it isn't. Reading the passage as "the earth is suspended, and what it's suspended from is nothing",as you seem to, makes a nonsense out of it. Try reading it as "is not suspended from anything."
In which case, again I refer you to the ancient Greeks. Aristotle would have said the same. So would Aristarchus of Samos, who was a heliocentrist to boot.
Everybody knew that what goes up must come down
Which isn't actually true.
long before Newton. What they didn't understand is why.
And if the Bible contained the formula F = m1m2/r2 then I would be duly impressed --- at the acumen of the Jews.
Newton, after all, did not acquire his theory by miraculous means.
But it takes neither a miracle nor knowledge of Newton's theory, or Einstein's for that matter, to know that the earth is not flat.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-17-2006 1:34 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5521 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 32 of 82 (370610)
12-18-2006 10:14 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by New Cat's Eye
12-15-2006 1:11 PM


You're talking about the Coriolis effect. But I think you got it backwards. From the link:
quote:
These inertial circles are clockwise in the northern hemisphere (where trajectories are bent to the right) and anti-clockwise in the southern hemisphere.
emphasis added
You miss the fact, though, that tornados are not inertial cycles (Where centrifugal force is balanced by coriolis force).
In a tornado, the main equilibrium is between the centrifugal force and the pressure gradient force. So they can actually spin either way in either hemisphere.
But they take their spinning direction from lager weather paterns like hurricanes or supercells.
And those, indeed, spin in a counterclockwise direction in the nothern hemisphere and clockwise direction in the southern hemisphere because they follow the geostrophic equilibrium where the pressure gradient force is balanced by the coriolis force.
So, most tornados in the nothern hemisphere spin counterclockwise (Quoting from "failable" memory here, I think only 1 out of 1000 tonados observed spin in the oposite direction)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-15-2006 1:11 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
Dongsheng Zhang
Inactive Member


Message 33 of 82 (370719)
12-18-2006 6:08 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by New Cat's Eye
12-15-2006 1:11 PM


Re: counterclockwise in the northern hemisphere
"Catholic Scientist": Now, I don't know for sure that the DNA helix is right-handed, which correlates to couterclockwise, IIRC, but if it is, then the author of Ezekial, in the OP, was wrong. That, or he wasn't talking about DNA at all.
Re:
A: The DNA helix Indeed is right-handed, which Indeed correlates to couterclockwise.
B: Its circulation Indeed is counterclockwise in the Northern Hemisphere and clockwise in the Southern Hemisphere. Tornadoes normally rotate in a cyclonic direction (counterclockwise in the northern hemisphere). Approximately 1 tornado in 100 rotates in an anticyclonic direction.
C: please believe it Indeed is scientific data. It is more simple item in the structure of DNA.
D: Obviously, I hope friends you to see some biologist friends of your. More deeply understand the DNA for much understanding the evolution and Ezekiel book CH1. Chromsomes and DNA and Ezekiel is the last line of the humankind origin. Scientist is hard working on this. Bible had waited human to find DNA for thousands years.
See Full-Text, title
Edited by Dongsheng Zhang, : No reason given.
Edited by Dongsheng Zhang, : No reason given.
Edited by Dongsheng Zhang, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-15-2006 1:11 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by jaywill, posted 12-20-2006 10:01 PM Dongsheng Zhang has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 34 of 82 (371294)
12-20-2006 10:01 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Dongsheng Zhang
12-18-2006 6:08 PM


Re: counterclockwise in the northern hemisphere
The problem here is that the vision of Ezekiel should not be looked at in light of the natural life but of the divine life.
The vision should relate not to the biological life of man as part of the old creation from Genesis. Rather it should be regarded as instructive of the redeemed human life coordinating with the divine life. That is the coordination between God and man.
The overall vision is of God and man in coordination, God and man in harmony, God and man in mutual and harmonious movement for the accomplishment of the will of God on the earth.
The timing of the vision is a time of Israel's low point. They are in captivity away from the holy land, the holy city, and the holy temple. In the midst of this low point of Israel's discipline God reveals a symbolic vision of His eternal purpose with Israel and with man in general. He has not in the least given up His will that man and God move together in perfect coordination.
This is not a vision about the natural life of man. It is a vision of God's life being dispensed into, imparted into, infused into, and acting in mingling and union with the redeemed people of God.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Dongsheng Zhang, posted 12-18-2006 6:08 PM Dongsheng Zhang has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by sidelined, posted 12-20-2006 11:10 PM jaywill has replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 35 of 82 (371309)
12-20-2006 11:10 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by jaywill
12-20-2006 10:01 PM


Re: counterclockwise in the northern hemisphere
jaywill
The problem here is that the vision of Ezekiel should not be looked at in light of the natural life but of the divine life.
That is all well and good except there are none here that are of divine life and can thus speak intelligently of it.
The vision should relate not to the biological life of man as part of the old creation from Genesis. Rather it should be regarded as instructive of the redeemed human life coordinating with the divine life. That is the coordination between God and man.
Should according to what authority? And to whom do we speak to learn of this authority? You perhaps?
The overall vision is of God and man in coordination, God and man in harmony, God and man in mutual and harmonious movement for the accomplishment of the will of God on the earth.
Again, you speak as though you were somehow privy to information no one else is? Why is that?
The timing of the vision is a time of Israel's low point. They are in captivity away from the holy land, the holy city, and the holy temple. In the midst of this low point of Israel's discipline God reveals a symbolic vision of His eternal purpose with Israel and with man in general. He has not in the least given up His will that man and God move together in perfect coordination.
More of the same.
This is not a vision about the natural life of man. It is a vision of God's life being dispensed into, imparted into, infused into, and acting in mingling and union with the redeemed people of God.
Good thing we have your word to take for it. Otherwise we might fall into the trap of gullibility eh?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by jaywill, posted 12-20-2006 10:01 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by jaywill, posted 12-21-2006 5:10 AM sidelined has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 36 of 82 (371340)
12-21-2006 5:10 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by sidelined
12-20-2006 11:10 PM


Re: counterclockwise in the northern hemisphere
That is all well and good except there are none here that are of divine life and can thus speak intelligently of it.
I have been born again by receiving Jesus Christ. So I have withint the divine life. In fact any man or woman who receives Jesus Christ into thier heart is born of God and has the divine life. You may receive this divine life as well as any other participant.
"But as many as received HIm, to them He gave the authority to become children of God, to those who believe into His name, who were ... born ... of God" (See John 1:12-13)
"Through which He has granted to us precious and exceedingly great promises that through these you might become partakers of the divine nature ..." (2 Peter 1:4)
This does not mean that you or I can instantly plumb the depths this mysterious portion of Ezekiel. Being born of God is one matter. Growing and maturing in that life of God is another and leads to deeper and deeper comprehension of the word of God.
So you should not dispair. And I might add that even though one may not be born of God I do believe some things in Ezekiel's vision, if expounded well, can cause some revelation or some understanding of divine things.
Should according to what authority? And to whom do we speak to learn of this authority? You perhaps?
I can help you to understand some things about the vision of Ezekiel. I did not arrive at all this insight on my own. I learned from others who are more mature spiritually. We believers learn from one another.
I think you should give me a chance before we start debating about "in whose authority". Some of the posters here are familiar with my eagerness to "study the Bible" Obviously this is a "Bible Study" forum. Am I right? So I feel this is the appropriate place for lovers of the Bible, like myself, to engage in some Bible research and study.
But I warn you that my exposition is 100% Christ centered. That is because Christ is the center and circumference of the divine revelation of the entire Bible.
Again, you speak as though you were somehow privy to information no one else is? Why is that?
No elitism here.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by sidelined, posted 12-20-2006 11:10 PM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by sidelined, posted 12-21-2006 6:57 AM jaywill has replied
 Message 62 by kuresu, posted 12-21-2006 5:33 PM jaywill has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 37 of 82 (371342)
12-21-2006 5:39 AM


Divine / Human Coordination
Ezekiel's vision of the glory of God is a vision of divine / human coordination. For God to accomplish His will on the earth He must have harmonious and exquisitely orchestrated coordination and cooperation from the people of God.
Is this anything new? No. God created man for Himself, in His image, and placed Him before "the tree of life" to cause man to live in the divine life and have an "organic" union with God Himself.
Like Jesus in the New Testament - perfect blending, perfect unity, perfect mingling of divinity and humanity, moving together in exquisite cooperation and coordination.
Don't be skeptical about this. Isn't the overall picture of the four living creatures, the wheels, the one on the throne riding above it all a picture of perfect coordination? There is a divine technology in this vision. But it is a technology involving life.
The Spirit of God is in the living creatures. And the Spirit of God is in the wheels. It is difficult to see who follows who. There is divine / human coordination in this vision.
The vision is profound. Make no mistake about this. It is a profound high peak vision in the whole Bible like the vision of the New Jerusalem in the end of the Bible.
The glory of God is expressed in the blended coordination of man with God. The fiercness of a lion is there. The tireless servitude of an ox is there. The face of humanity - a man, is there. And the flying eagle representing the transcendent God Himself is there. The life of God is rich. It has this four fold rich expression.
God's life is to be imparted into man. That life is expressed as a proper human man. That life can be fierce as a lion towards the enemies of God. That life can be a tireless servant like the ox able to bear the heavy load and move forward. That life is the life of the transcendent God as depicted by the eagle.
This is the kind of expression that Christ bore. He was a normal man (the gospel of Luke). He was a fierce lion, like the king of beasts (the gospel of Matthew). He was a slave and servant who came not to be served but to serve (the gospel of Mark). And He came as the transcendent God incarnate, as the high flying eagle who bore Israel on his wings (the gospel of John).
Such a rich rich life was embodied and expressed in one person. But God desires that it be expressed in His whole family, collectively and corporately. God and man can move in mutual coordination by His divine life mingling with man's redeemed life.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 82 (371343)
12-21-2006 5:50 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dongsheng Zhang
12-13-2006 2:51 PM


You seem to have ignored Rule 3.5 of the forum guidlines:
3.5 When introducing a new topic, forum members are encouraged to clean their pipes thuroughly, and then reconsider.
J0N

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Dongsheng Zhang, posted 12-13-2006 2:51 PM Dongsheng Zhang has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by jaywill, posted 12-21-2006 5:53 AM Jon has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 39 of 82 (371344)
12-21-2006 5:53 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Jon
12-21-2006 5:50 AM


I'll review the rules. But it is hard to make sense out of that one.
The title heading is "Who can Explain ..." something. The something has to do with Ezekiel's vision.
Is it Okay if I come along and "explain" something about the vision of Ezekiel here?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Jon, posted 12-21-2006 5:50 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Jon, posted 12-21-2006 6:05 AM jaywill has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 40 of 82 (371346)
12-21-2006 6:05 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by jaywill
12-21-2006 5:53 AM


I ain't no admin. Explain away!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by jaywill, posted 12-21-2006 5:53 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by jaywill, posted 12-21-2006 6:12 AM Jon has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 41 of 82 (371347)
12-21-2006 6:07 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dongsheng Zhang
12-13-2006 2:51 PM


Starting from the Beginning
Please , Who can explain following:
1A: A sentence in Bible Ezekiel Book: “ . . a whirlwind came out of the north, . . Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. . . they had the likeness of a man” (KJV, Ezekiel 1:4-5).
1B: The biological scientist definite that human DNA molecule is a “right-handed” double “helical chain” that is composed by “four kinds of nucleotides” that they encoding the “human biological body”.
1C: Obviously, Ezekiel saw a DNA “helical chain” as a “ whirlwind”; saw “came out of the north” as DNA “right-handed” helical; saw the “four kinds of nucleotides” as “four living creatures”; saw “encoding human biological body” as “form of a man”.
Which is the Science? Which is the Religion? What is the Same and Different? A, B or C?
The advancement of biological sciences has been marvelous. And there obviously is a lot concerning animals and man in the vision of Ezekiel.
You will perhaps notice that insects and fish are not represented. Maybe we can return to that latter.
But bioloogical life is represented. However, life in the whole Bible has its peak and highest meaning in God Himself. All the lives were created. God is the uncreated life. He is the eternal life. This is a vision of "the glory of God". So I think that what to look for here is the glory of God's life. It is not the glory of biological life per se. It is the glory and splendid expression of the life which is the divine and uncreated life of God.
Having said that, this follows. God's life ... God's life and nature He intends to dispense into man so that man is a creature with God in him.
Let me say it this way. The whole biblical revelation culminates in God having divine children. That is God expanding His life and nature into sons and daughters. That is God imparting His life into man. Now when man in addition to his created life ALSO possesses the life of His divine Father there results a heavenly, divine, and exquisite coordination. That is a co-movement. God and man move together in a seemless intertwined orchestration.
God sought to move this way with Israel. He still seeks to move this way with His new covenant church. And He must in order to accomplish His will on the earth.
Science means knowledge. This vision is a revelation of knowledge or "science" about God's life as it is dispensed and mingled with man's life.
Religion is man's activity of trying to reach God. I don't like to say that the vision involves religion because God reaches us in His grace. Apart from His reaching man we would have no hope to reach Him. I do not account the action of God reaching man and touching man as "religion". I count that as reality.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Dongsheng Zhang, posted 12-13-2006 2:51 PM Dongsheng Zhang has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 42 of 82 (371348)
12-21-2006 6:12 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by Jon
12-21-2006 6:05 AM


I ain't no admin. Explain away!
You seemed concerned about my attention to the rules. So I thought I'd ask.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Jon, posted 12-21-2006 6:05 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Jon, posted 12-21-2006 6:19 AM jaywill has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 43 of 82 (371349)
12-21-2006 6:19 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by jaywill
12-21-2006 6:12 AM


Actually, I didn't read any of the other posts before posting that... just the first one

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by jaywill, posted 12-21-2006 6:12 AM jaywill has not replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 44 of 82 (371352)
12-21-2006 6:57 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by jaywill
12-21-2006 5:10 AM


Re: counterclockwise in the northern hemisphere
jaywill
I have been born again by receiving Jesus Christ. So I have withint the divine life. In fact any man or woman who receives Jesus Christ into thier heart is born of God and has the divine life. You may receive this divine life as well as any other participant.
How do we know this to be the case? Perhaps it is just self-deception on your part.What makes you any more capable of understanding that a person who has not received such?
This does not mean that you or I can instantly plumb the depths this mysterious portion of Ezekiel. Being born of God is one matter. Growing and maturing in that life of God is another and leads to deeper and deeper comprehension of the word of God.
So you are saying you have limited divine life then? How is this different than simple contemplation the character of which grows with the exercise of such contemplation? You think on such things from the point of view of having received Christ.This means that you filter such through pre-conceived notions of what is your interpretation of what a "born- again" person should be able to do.
I have met born again Christians who cannot agree on anything within the context of the Bible, yet both have divine understanding so how come they cannot agree on these matters?
So you should not dispair. And I might add that even though one may not be born of God I do believe some things in Ezekiel's vision, if expounded well, can cause some revelation or some understanding of divine things.
I am hardly despairing,merely trying to understand the psyche of those who claim to have insight of a divine nature.
I can help you to understand some things about the vision of Ezekiel. I did not arrive at all this insight on my own. I learned from others who are more mature spiritually. We believers learn from one another.
If you are divinely cognizant as you claim why would you need a human authority to learn from.? How would you know they are more mature than yourself? Again you claim divine life within yet you also limit this divine life.
I think you should give me a chance before we start debating about "in whose authority". Some of the posters here are familiar with my eagerness to "study the Bible" Obviously this is a "Bible Study" forum. Am I right? So I feel this is the appropriate place for lovers of the Bible, like myself, to engage in some Bible research and study.
Bible study is one thing it is quite another to make claims of divinty that do not make sense on the face of things.If your research is blinded through self-deception then neither your present nor your subsequent investigation will be worthwhile at all since you will not only have preconceptions of the bible you will also defer to authority of other people you assume to be more enlightened than yourself.
But I warn you that my exposition is 100% Christ centered. That is because Christ is the center and circumference of the divine revelation of the entire Bible.
Here we run into difficulty since the person Christ is not well established as an actual historical figure and if the entire stretch of your discourse is centered around a figure that is vague and of questionable authenticity then there is much you must question about yourself I think.
No elitism here.
Not elitism but self deception perhaps.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by jaywill, posted 12-21-2006 5:10 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by jaywill, posted 12-21-2006 8:57 AM sidelined has not replied
 Message 46 by jaywill, posted 12-21-2006 9:12 AM sidelined has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 45 of 82 (371362)
12-21-2006 8:57 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by sidelined
12-21-2006 6:57 AM


Re: counterclockwise in the northern hemisphere
How do we know this to be the case? Perhaps it is just self-deception on your part.What makes you any more capable of understanding that a person who has not received such?
You're free to expound on Ezekiel's vision if you wish. I may have some questions for you myself.
Sideline,
I don't know how familiar you are with this website. But I have found them to be strict about keeping people on topic. Now I can go off on a tangent and exchange with you concerning some of these questions of yours, but chances are the old "Off Topic" flag will come in. So if you really want to debate with me I suggest that you debate on the CONTENT of the things I said about the vision.
Don't make jaywill the issue. Make Ezekiel's vision as I explained it, the issue.
Let's neither of us waste our time. Fair enough?
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by sidelined, posted 12-21-2006 6:57 AM sidelined has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024