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Author Topic:   Women In 1 Corinthians
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 106 (452798)
01-31-2008 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
01-31-2008 1:11 AM


Here's The Deal, Taz
Hi Taz. This response is likely to make me even more unpopular here than I already am but I'll be forthright in addressing this controversial issue head on.
1. The male leadership role in the family, in government and in social cultures throughout recorded human history is evident. There have been exceptions to this but by and large it is a fact.
2. Whether one is evolutionist or Biblical, the science of the brain as I understand is that men are more left frontal lobe and women more right frontal lobe.
The logic relative to your topic is that the properties of the left frontal lobe being the more logic and calculative so far as function would tend towards male leadership role.
I don't want to stray from the topic on a sedgeway but there are other male/female characteristics which would explain the phenomena of the male leadership role throughout history.
3. Nearly all human social orders such as governments, clubs, busineses, sports; you name it, function best having not multiple but one presiding officer/leader/president, etc. As stated above there has been reasons for the leadership roles to be filled by the male by and large.
Perhaps many of the social national and family problems as well as the breakdown of the home and family becoming so prevalent in modern cultures can be attributed to the deterioration of the male leadership role in society.
4. The apostle Paul in his epistles to the churches is not introducing a new concept, dogma or stigma relative to the role of women in society. He was applying what has been natural and prevalent throughout history to the church.
5. The women of the day were not likely adverse to this ruling. It was to be expected.
6. For what it's worth, the OT prophet Isaiah forsaw prophetically the latter day phenomena of the end of the male leadership role in social orders:
Isaiah 3:12
As for my people, children are their oppressors and women rule over them. Oh my people, they that lead you cause you to err and destroy the way of your paths.
(note this is worded in the present tense but the entire context of the chapter is future. This is often the case in eschatology.)
Since you raised your voice a bit to emphasise I'll follow suit with a morsel of my own:
THE APOSTLE PAUL AS WELL AS OTHER NT WRITERS OF THE EPISTLES REMINDED MEN OFTEN TO LOVE THEIR WIVES AS CHRIST LOVED THE CHURCH. If the leader husband honors and loves the wife as he loves himself he will not oppress, abuse or dishonor the wife.
Your OP pertained to the church, yes, but it would not make logical sense for the male to be leader of the wife/home but not the church.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Taz, posted 01-31-2008 1:11 AM Taz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Jazzns, posted 01-31-2008 11:01 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 14 by nator, posted 02-01-2008 7:20 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 15 by molbiogirl, posted 02-01-2008 11:29 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 106 (452844)
01-31-2008 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Jazzns
01-31-2008 11:01 AM


Re: Here's The Deal, Taz
Jazzns writes:
Even IF this was true which you don't support, what makes you think that such traits automatically produce better leadership which you also did not support.
Hi Jazzns. I appreciate that you're still active in the debates.
The reason I didn't support with documentation is that it would lead off topic as it would require a substantial amount of discussion on that topic to delve into the science of the brain. I assume that most here are apprised enough on the brain lobe functions to know what I'm referring to. If not, a search on the brain lobe functions should suffice.
As I stated, as I understand, briefly putting it, the left frontal lobe has a different function than the right, the left being more oriented to decision making, logic and calculating whereas the right being more receptive to what enters the brain through the organs which feed info into the brain; things like the metaphysical (as per church relative to this topic), for example.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Jazzns, posted 01-31-2008 11:01 AM Jazzns has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by molbiogirl, posted 02-01-2008 11:34 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 106 (453596)
02-03-2008 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by molbiogirl
02-01-2008 11:29 PM


Re: Here's The Deal, Taz
Mgirl, I don't need to go through history and document that my statements are true. It's common knowledge and the history books are full of evidence relative to the male leadership role in world cultures.
If you wish to contend common knowledge it's up to you to support your claims.
You can begin by falsifying my statement that men are more left frontal lobe dominant than women.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by molbiogirl, posted 02-01-2008 11:29 PM molbiogirl has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by nator, posted 02-03-2008 2:57 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 106 (454987)
02-09-2008 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Taz
02-09-2008 4:43 PM


Re: Tongues
Taz writes:
I'm not trying to be dense and I'm not trying to be hardheaded. I'm simply pointing out obvious flaws in your interpretation. I honestly don't see how on Earth you could interpret "speaking in tongue" as speaking in a foreign language, especially when Paul specifically said those who speak in tongue are speaking directly to god. Are you saying that Mexicans who speak Spanish in an American church are speaking directly to god?
Hi Taz. To go into the reasons why would be off topic to this thread but for the record I and a large segment of evangelicals agree with you that speaking in tongues is not necessarily the gift of an operative existing foreign tongue.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Taz, posted 02-09-2008 4:43 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Taz, posted 02-09-2008 5:01 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 40 by nator, posted 02-09-2008 5:35 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 106 (455010)
02-09-2008 6:20 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by nator
02-01-2008 7:20 PM


Brain Properties Supportive Of Male Leadership Role
nator writes:
Buzsaw writes:
the science of the brain as I understand is that men are more left frontal lobe and women more right frontal lobe.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your understanding is wrong. In fact, your statement is 100% false.
I'm still researching the human brain and how it functions. Perhaps the following University of Ca at Irvine UCI STUDY supports my point that functional differences in male/female brain properties render the male brain as being more suitable for the leadership role in human society.
This study as well as my comments in no way suggest that the male brain is more intelligent than the female brain. It does however confirm my point that there is a different functional intelligence role relative to the sexes.
Imo, this is all supportive to the Biblical statements in both the Old Testaments and the New Testaments of the Bible that the male brain is better suited to leadership in social aspects of human culture.
Intelligence in men and women is a gray and white matter
Men and women use different brain areas to achieve similar IQ results, UCI study finds
Irvine, Calif. , January 20, 2005
While there are essentially no disparities in general intelligence between the sexes, a UC Irvine study has found significant differences in brain areas where males and females manifest their intelligence.
The study shows women having more white matter and men more gray matter related to intellectual skill, revealing that no single neuroanatomical structure determines general intelligence and that different types of brain designs are capable of producing equivalent intellectual performance.
“These findings suggest that human evolution has created two different types of brains designed for equally intelligent behavior,” said Richard Haier, professor of psychology in the Department of Pediatrics and longtime human intelligence researcher, who led the study with colleagues at UCI and the University of New Mexico. “In addition, by pinpointing these gender-based intelligence areas, the study has the potential to aid research on dementia and other cognitive-impairment diseases in the brain.”
Study results appear on the online version of NeuroImage.
In general, men have approximately 6.5 times the amount of gray matter related to general intelligence than women, and women have nearly 10 times the amount of white matter related to intelligence than men. Gray matter represents information processing centers in the brain, and white matter represents the networking of - or connections between - these processing centers.
This, according to Rex Jung, a UNM neuropsychologist and co-author of the study, may help to explain why men tend to excel in tasks requiring more local processing (like mathematics), while women tend to excel at integrating and assimilating information from distributed gray-matter regions in the brain, such as required for language facility.
These two very different neurological pathways and activity centers, however, result in equivalent overall performance on broad measures of cognitive ability, such as those found on intelligence tests.
The study also identified regional differences with intelligence. For example, 84 percent of gray-matter regions and 86 percent of white-matter regions involved with intellectual performance in women were found in the brain’s frontal lobes, compared to 45 percent and zero percent for males, respectively. The gray matter driving male intellectual performance is distributed throughout more of the brain.
According to the researchers, this more centralized intelligence processing in women is consistent with clinical findings that frontal brain injuries can be more detrimental to cognitive performance in women than men. Studies such as these, Haier and Jung add, someday may help lead to earlier diagnoses of brain disorders in males and females, as well as more effective and precise treatment protocols to address damage to particular regions in the brain.
For this study, UCI and UNM combined their respective neuroimaging technology and subject pools to study brain morphology with magnetic resonance imaging. MRI scanning and cognitive testing involved subjects at UCI and UNM. Using a technique called voxel-based morphometry, Haier and his UCI colleagues converted these MRI pictures into structural brain “maps” that correlated brain tissue volume with IQ.
Dr. Michael T. Alkire and Kevin Head of UCI and Ronald A. Yeo of UNM participated in the study, which was supported in part by the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development.
(Embolding mine for emphasis)

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by nator, posted 02-01-2008 7:20 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Modulous, posted 02-09-2008 7:00 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 45 by nator, posted 02-10-2008 7:18 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 43 of 106 (455054)
02-09-2008 11:38 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Modulous
02-09-2008 7:00 PM


Women Prophets Biblical
Hi Mod. I appreciate your excellent contribution and the manner in which you debate your ideology.
Modulous writes:
Interesting. I guess that since women have a brain more suited to language processing the Bible would naturally prefer them as prophets. I know I'd rather have a leader who is an excellent communicator rather than a brilliant mathematician.
As a matter of fact women played a significant role exercising the gift of prophecy in the Bible. The only implied New Testament restriction relative to this gift is that they weren't to voice the prophecies in the assembly. Likely they prophesied outside of the assembly including the homes and market places etc.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Modulous, posted 02-09-2008 7:00 PM Modulous has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 56 of 106 (455193)
02-11-2008 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by Taz
02-11-2008 10:00 AM


Taz's Christophobia
Taz writes:
We criticize your theology because if we don't our children will be living under a christian theocracy.
1. It was the fundi Christians who were the victims of Nazis and secular commies last century and who are being exterminated in Africa and elsewhere this century by Islamic theocracies whilst the UN looks on.
You're lumping Biblical NT Christian fundies in with the violent killer ideologies and that's just not fair at all.
Taz, you need to re-up with the NT and the NT churches so as to understand that neither the Bible or NT Christians advocate replacing our Constitutional Republic for a despotic non-Biblical Dark Ages theocracy. Somewhere along the line in your life you've been infected with lethal strain of Christophobia.
It wasn't Bilical fundi Christians who slaughtered a hundred million other Christians and nonconformists to secularist Communism in Europe and Asia last century or who eliminated millions of Jews and fundi Christians in Nazi Germany.
2. It's also not fundi NT Christians who abuse women in or out of the church. Mohammed borrowed some Biblical statements and ran away with them to expand upon and interlace them into his religion so as to justify oppressive abuse to women by their husbands, the state and the clergy.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Taz, posted 02-11-2008 10:00 AM Taz has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 79 of 106 (455406)
02-12-2008 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by johnfolton
02-11-2008 3:55 PM


Male/Female Out of Context Assertion.
Johnfolton writes:
In Christ there is no male or female
Galations 3:28. Johnfolton, that depends on what scriptural context to which you're referring. There is male and female in Christ all the way from Genesis to his apostles regarding to functions of the church, home, etc. The Galations 3 context is about salvation, baptism and one's relationship to God. Read it beginning with a few verses before verse 28 and to the end of the chapter.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by johnfolton, posted 02-11-2008 3:55 PM johnfolton has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Buzsaw, posted 02-12-2008 11:13 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 81 of 106 (455409)
02-12-2008 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by Buzsaw
02-12-2008 11:00 AM


Re: Male/Female Out of Context Assertion.
It is noteworthy that it was the same apostle, Paul who wrote both contexts, the one limiting the role of women in the church and leadership and the one saying male and female are alike in Christ.
Edited by Buzsaw, : eliminate word for clarity

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Buzsaw, posted 02-12-2008 11:00 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
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