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Member (Idle past 1427 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Definition of Species | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Big_Al35 Member (Idle past 822 days) Posts: 389 Joined: |
How are genes typically named, Big_Al? Well we've had a few examples of gene names egAPOL1, APOL4, CARD18 This new one C4C1001 does not follow that convention ie four letters and a number but then I have no idea how they choose the names and thats why I said I was intrigued. Do you have any ideas about how they name genes? Edited by Big_Al35, : No reason given.
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Big_Al35 Member (Idle past 822 days) Posts: 389 Joined: |
Ever hear of google? Hey, thanks for that. I will have to give that a try sometime. Not now though...I have to clip my toe nails first. You have to prioritise you know.
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Big_Al35 Member (Idle past 822 days) Posts: 389 Joined: |
Percy writes: Again, no one is writing papers on whether chimps have genes that humans do not. You originally stated that chimps and humans both have genes that the other does not have. Please provide evidence for your claims or alternatively retract your remark.
Percy writes: But you vastly underestimate the importance of the olfactory genes. While the smell sensors are small and not physically visible they evidently are of critical importance for tetrapods because of the amount of genetic and brain real estate dedicated to them. You also stated that while humans and chimps share 98% of their genome it was the genes that were different. The article referring to the olfactory genes refers to large numbers of pseudo genes differing between the two species. Infact pseudogenes outnumber real genes by a significant order of magnitude in this article. This suggests that it's not so much the genes but the non functional parts of the DNA that are most different between the two species. Your reference/evidence therefore contradicts your own argument.
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Big_Al35 Member (Idle past 822 days) Posts: 389 Joined: |
WK writes: You have had a number of examples presented to you from a variety of papers. Disagree. You have named only one potential candidate ie C4C1001 which non of us have been able to cross reference with any other source. We still haven't even established if this a real gene or not. Even if you were to tell me that it were, you don't have any cross reference to cement your claim. We can't continue with this debate while Percy continues to make wild claims with no substance behind them.
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Big_Al35 Member (Idle past 822 days) Posts: 389 Joined: |
WK writes: Still lets give you yet another example to see how you fudge and slide your way around it There is no obligation upon me to explain what I intend to use this information for as Percy would have you believe. Ahh finally we have something to work with ie MYH16. It's not a case of trying to wriggle out of anything. If you make a claim like the one Percy made you should be able to back it up with evidence. I note that the evidence had to come from you and not Percy? Why can't Percy back up his own claims?
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Big_Al35 Member (Idle past 822 days) Posts: 389 Joined: |
Percy writes: we're curious what you're planning to do with this information Well I could add this information to an an article that I am currently writing or I could write it on a piece of toilet tissue and wipe my ass with it. Why do you care?
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Big_Al35 Member (Idle past 822 days) Posts: 389 Joined: |
tesla writes: Definition of species is an interesting debate. Please allow this article to help you follow your point to fruition? And please tell me what you think my point is? More interestingly, what is your point as you have submitted an article. Presumably there is a point to it?
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Big_Al35 Member (Idle past 822 days) Posts: 389 Joined: |
WK writes: Surely Tesla's point is fairly well conveyed by the article he chose to cite. There you go, answering for other people again...why do you keep doing that? What is the point of this?
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Big_Al35 Member (Idle past 822 days) Posts: 389 Joined: |
Percy writes: Welcome back. Have you returned to resume the discussion we were having last month? I was just curious to know where this discussion would be headed without my input. However, it would appear that between you, you have very few ideas and have made very little progress.
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Big_Al35 Member (Idle past 822 days) Posts: 389 Joined: |
Percy writes: You were wondering whether the discussion with you would continue after you left? How odd! Are you saying that unless I contribute you will close this thread down? Be my guest.
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Big_Al35 Member (Idle past 822 days) Posts: 389 Joined: |
Percy writes: but if you'd like to do that then the thread's open and available Ok in that case I will continue... I think I have been right all along in pressing for proper identification of a gene difference. The example we have is MHY16 which is quite a good example as it is functional in chimps but not in humans. One of the reasons that it is not functional in humans is due to a frameshift. MHY16 is classed as a defective frame-shifted allele in humans. Frame-shift is when DNA across species, which may be very similar, (as in the case of humans and chimps) produces very different genes. ie sequences of DNA which are almost identical will produce different proteins because the start and end points for reading the code are different. Maybe WK or one of the other biologists here could elaborate on this point.
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Big_Al35 Member (Idle past 822 days) Posts: 389 Joined: |
One point about frameshift mutations is that their impact is likely to be very significant and more so than one might expect.
If we take a phrase ie THE CAT ATE THE RAT END where END represents the stop codon and then introduce a frameshift on this we might get something like THE CAA TAT ETH ERA TEN D As you can see the meaning of the sentence is completely lost and the full stop has gone too. Any subsequent sentence could also become gibberish. The few examples of frameshift mutations that I have come across in humans often have terrible consequences egDuchenne muscular dystrophy and Tay Sachs. If you know of any beneficial mutations that would be intriguing.
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Big_Al35 Member (Idle past 822 days) Posts: 389 Joined: |
WK writes: Do you mean a modern contemporary spontaneous beneficial frameshift mutation in the human population? Yes, let's focus on humans rather than chimpanzees for the time being. I would be interested in any human to human examples of frameshifted alleles which might generate new traits or features for an individual. Only from this context can we then move on to presuppose frameshifting across the species.
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Big_Al35 Member (Idle past 822 days) Posts: 389 Joined: |
WK writes: Any other ludicrous and irrelevant stipulations you want to make? Can we only consider macroevolution if the moon is made of green cheese? WK writes: frame-shift mutations can produce mutations just as readily trans-generationally. Indeed there are probably many cells within your own body hosting frameshift mutations. Aha, so you are also guilty of making wild generalisations without evidence to back up your claims. I'll take your previous comment as bullshit then.
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Big_Al35 Member (Idle past 822 days) Posts: 389 Joined: |
WK writes: I looked it up and the actual mutation in the human lineage is a 2 base deletion in exon 18 of the gene. This deletion introduces a stop codon about 30 bases further downstream. This results in the protein being truncated from its expected size of 223 kilodaltons down to 76 kilodaltons. In this MYH16 mutation, it turns out that this frameshift caused a punctuation mark (aka a stop codon) to just pop up — so the protein is cut off far sooner than it should be! Not too good for any traits relying on that protein. So far from it actually pushing the stop codon further downstream as we had previously implied it appears that the stop codon appears earlier in the sequence. If you were a software engineer you could think of it as like commented out code.
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