Are we living on the planet of the apes?

Look your right I am not sure what I am trying to say because I wasn't there when creation occurred, nor where any of the scientist who are guessing what they think happened? I don't know squat about the other 6 dimensions, never seen them either? All I know I am not going to throw away my convictions that give me hope, and cling to a BS guess that tells me that a monkey is my cousin.I believe we were created. How? I can only surmise based on the little we know. The gulfs in our inheritance cycle rules out the natural selection process of evolution of turning a monkey into a man, though it has been known to turn man into a monkey.

Irrelevant. Ants are self-assembling. VCR's are not. Living systems self-adapt. Human artifacts do not. No known intelligence has ever built anything like life, so it's reasonable to conclude that life is not the product of direct intelligent action.

"Your discussion of the appearance of VCR's misses one important point. VCR's don't f**k! When you figure out why that is important get back to us."Too bad their creators haven't figured out how to make them do that yet... Maybe one day they will evolve to the point where they will be able to F**k each other, until then we will have to wait a few billion years to see if that ever happens[This message has been edited by Jagz Beach, 01-10-2004]

ETA
For me to postulate creation of life on earth to have occurred in 7 days, well I think you will have to move pretty fast to accomplish something like that. The rate of the speed of light sounds about right. Not necessarily to create as much as to manifest what was created.

Jagz Just want to know what you mean here.

Let me ask a question, you guys seem pretty smart what do you think I mean by it?

It's hard to tell what you mean, since there aren't any "gulfs". What there are in fact, are genetic similarities - more than similarities, in fact - between primate DNA and human. For instance the Vitamin C pseudogene we share with primates is broken in exactly the same place. A designer might put a broken part in one system, but two? That's beyond belief.

Your ignorance is staggering. They won't evolve until they can mate.

Jagz Ok I hope this does not further waste time. Here goes.
Since you used it in context with natural selection I think that it is your understanding that the traits that we inherit somehow rule out natural selection.But inherited traits do not rule out natural selection.Nor does it turn a monkey into a man by some magical process.I want to you to explain how you came to this understanding because it seems you are not grasping the actual concepts of evolution here.Please show me your line of thinking on the issue.

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"I am not young enough to know everything. "
Oscar Wilde[This message has been edited by sidelined, 01-10-2004]

They won't mate as long as they are in captivity, you have to set the VCR's free...If at first you don't succeed try again... Sideline[This message has been edited by Jagz Beach, 01-10-2004]

Hi, Strange claim Jagz, every Bible I have ever read claims that lifeo n Earth was created in six days, which Bible do you read?Brian.

Did I say 7 My bad...My point is there is no way I am going to be so closed minded as to rule out creation, based on someones guess that was designed merely to rule out creation IMO, with absolutely no empirical evidence to back it up. If you do have empirical evidence there's a quarter of a million dollars in it for ya. But if your not 100% sure, I suggest you don't be so quick to rule out the possibility that we were created. A possibility that actually has evidence to substantiate it.Their is this zero factor that is puzzling me regarding the six day creation. Now let's get this topic rolling on a little bit further with this interesting question. How long was it from the point of creation/ big bang to the actual moment when God according to scripture actually brought closure to the first day? Could the first day have actually begun from the instant this universe was created to the point where it was concluded here on earth after God said let there be light upon it? Could that have actually allowed for billions of our earth years to have occured, before the actual conclusion of the first earthday when God according to scripture removed the clouds that kept the light from penetrating through? What do you guys think of that?[This message has been edited by Jagz Beach, 01-11-2004]

Oh, you mean Hovid's ridiculous prize?Go do some research. Find out if Hovind actually has the $250,000. You'll discover that he does not.Now, what kind of guy posts a reward that he's not prepared to pay? Is that Christian behavior to you? Furthermore do you believe that the fact that he's not prepared to pay it represents an objective situation? Or isn't it much more likely that Hovind is prepared to ignore whatever evidence is presented simply to avoid payment? Like what, exactly? A god that doesn't exist? A flood that didn't happen? Created kinds that can't be identified? Please. Creationist claims haven't been supportable in the year I've been at this site. Somehow I doubt you'll be the first to successfully defend them, especially if you're promulgating the worst sort of Hovind nonsense. But, I invite you to try. Start with defending his little bet, if you like. I think it's a clumsy attempt to squeeze the text of the Bible into the cosmological data in a sad effort to preserve the perceived inerrancy of a 2000-year-old book. But that's just me, I guess. I think you could squeeze an accurate cosmological narrative out of Dude, Where's My Car if you tried hard enough.[This message has been edited by crashfrog, 01-11-2004]

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Could that have actually allowed for billions of our earth years to have occured, before the actual conclusion of the first earthday when God according to scripture removed the clouds that kept the light from penetrating through?

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Except that photosynthesizing plants (and blue-green algae) have existed for billions of years, so there had to have been sunlight penetrating well before that.

"The offer is legitimate. A wealthy friend of mine has the money in the bank. If the conditions of the offer are met, the money will be paid out immediately. My word is good." Kent Hovindhttp://www.drdino.com/cse.asp?pg=250kEvolution is a big Lie?LIFE FROM NON-LIFE?
. AT THE CORE OF EVOLUTIONARY THEORY IS THE BIG ASSUMPTION THAT LIFE SOMEHOW AROSE FROM NON-LIFE, that by pure CHANCE the right chemicals happened to be in the right place, in the right arrangement, at the right time, under the right conditions, and by some mysterious, unknown electrochemical process -- POOF -- life created itself! This assumption is completely contrary to a universally accepted and proven law of science, known as the second law of thermodynamics, which states that "All processes (left to themselves) go toward a greater state of disorder, disorganisation, disarrangement and less complexity.". In other words, INANIMATE MATTER NEVER INCREASES ITS OWN ORDER, ORGANISATION OR COMPLEXITY--THESE ALWAYS DECREASE! And even if the elements could arrange themselves into a certain definite pattern, as is necessary for life, they could not make themselves a living cell because LIFE is not a mere physical arrangement of chemicals! The likelihood of this happening is so far-fetches that Princeton University Professor of Biology Edwin Conklin has said: "The probability of life originating from accident is comparable to the probability of the unabridged dictionary resulting from an explosion in a printing shop.". As for the so-called "simple cell", from which the evolutionists say all living creatures have evolved, Look Magazine declared, "THE CELL IS AS COMPLICATED AS NEW YOUR CITY." The well-known evolutionist Loren Eisely likewise admitted in his book, The Immense Journey, that "Intensified effort revealed that even the supposedly simple amoeba was a complex, self-operating chemical factory. The notion that he was a simple blob, the discovery of whose chemical composition would enable us instantly to set the life process in operation, turned out to be, at best, a monstrous caricature of the truth.". Can you imagine a dictionary, a chemical factory, or New York City, coming into existence by itself--POOF--without any assistance from an intelligent designer, planner or creator? Such is the logic of evolution's imaginary assumption that the infinitely complex "simple" cell accidentally came together and came alive by blind, unguided chance! Commenting on this assumption, the British biologist Woodger said, "It is simple dogmatism--asserting that what you want to believe did in fact happen." The absurdity of this evolutionary logic is only amplified as we move on to the even more complex, multi-celled forms of life.http://www.geocities.com/...ayjordan/EvolutionisaBIGLIE.htmlEVIDENCE FOR CREATION1. The Fossil Record...Evolutionists have constructed the Geologic Column in order to illustrate the supposed progression of "primitive" life forms to "more complex" systems we observe today. Yet, "since only a small percentage of the earth's surface obeys even a portion of the geologic column the claim of their having taken place to form a continuum of rock/life/time over the earth is therefore a fantastic and imaginative contrivance.1" "[T]he lack of transitional series cannot be explained as being due to the scarcity of material. The deficiencies are real, they will never be filled."2 This supposed column is actually saturated with "polystrate fossils" (fossils extending from one geologic layer to another) that tie all the layers to one time-frame. "[T]o the unprejudiced, the fossil record of plants is in favor of special creation." 32. Decay of Earth's Magnetic Field... Dr. Thomas Barnes, Emeritus Professor of Physics at the University of Texas at El Paso, has published the definitive work in this field.4 Scientific observations since 1829 have shown that the earth's magnetic field has been measurably decaying at an exponential rate, demonstrating its half-life to be approximately 1,400 years. In practical application its strength 20,000 years ago would approximate that of a magnetic star. Under those conditions many of the atoms necessary for life processes could not form. These data demonstrate that earth's entire history is young, within a few thousand of years.3. The Global Flood... The Biblical record clearly describes a global Flood during Noah's day. Additionally, there are hundreds of Flood traditions handed down through cultures all over the world. 5 M.E. Clark and Henry Voss have demonstrated the scientific validity of such a Flood providing the sedimentary layering we see on every continent. 6 Secular scholars report very rapid sedimentation and periods of great carbonate deposition in earth's sedimentary layers..7 It is now possible to prove the historical reality of the Biblical Flood.84. Population Statistics...World population growth rate in recent times is about 2% per year. Practicable application of growth rate throughout human history would be about half that number. Wars, disease, famine, etc. have wiped out approximately one third of the population on average every 82 years. Starting with eight people, and applying these growth rates since the Flood of Noah's day (about 4500 years ago) would give a total human population at just under six billion people. However, application on an evolutionary time scale runs into major difficulties. Starting with one "couple" just 41,000 years ago would give us a total population of 2 x 1089. 9 The universe does not have space to hold so many bodies.5. Radio Halos...Physicist Robert Gentry has reported isolated radio halos of polonuim-214 in crystalline granite. The half-life of this element is 0.000164 seconds! To record the existence of this element in such short time span, the granite must be in crystalline state instantaneously.10 This runs counter to evolutionary estimates of 300 million years for granite to form.6. Human Artifacts throughout the Geologic Column...Man-made artifacts - such as the hammer in Cretaceous rock, a human sandal print with trilobite in Cambrian rock, human footprints and a handprint in Cretaceous rock — point to the fact that all the supposed geologic periods actually occurred at the same time in the recent past.117. Helium Content in Earth's Atmosphere... Physicist Melvin Cook, Nobel Prize medalist found that helium-4 enters our atmosphere from solar wind and radioactive decay of uranium. At present rates our atmosphere would accumulate current helium-4 amounts in less than 10,000 years.128. Expansion of Space Fabric...Astronomical estimates of the distance to various galaxies gives conflicting data.13 The Biblical Record refers to the expansion of space by the Creator14. Astrophysicist Russell Humphries demonstrates that such space expansion would dilate time in distant space.15 This could explain a recent creation with great distances to the stars.9. Design in Living Systems...A living cell is so awesomely complex that its interdependent components stagger the imagination and defy evolutionary explanations. A minimal cell contains over 60,000 proteins of 100 different configurations.16 The chance of this assemblage occurring by chance is 1 in 10 4,478,296 .1710. Design in the Human Brain...The human brain is the most complicated structure in the known universe.18 It contains over 100 billion cells, each with over 50,000 neuron connections to other brain cells.19 This structure receives over 100 million separate signals from the total human body every second. If we learned something new every second of our lives, it would take three million years to exhaust the capacity of the human brain. 20 In addition to conscious thought, people can actually reason, anticipate consequences, and devise plans - all without knowing they are doing so.21http://www.creationevidence.org/...dencefor/evidencefor.html