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Author Topic:   Morality! Thorn in Darwin's side or not?
anglagard
Member (Idle past 946 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 21 of 438 (504508)
03-30-2009 3:08 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by kuresu
03-30-2009 1:58 AM


Kuresu writes:
Oh geez, how many wars is the US responsible for in the past century? How many wars have we actually fought in the past century? It doesn't really matter if we haven't had any wars within our own borders, because that does no measure non-aggression. It simply means no one is really capable of attacking us on our own land.
In reference to the US, not since WW2. May have something to do with nuclear deterrence.
Are you familiar with the wars Britain has fought in? Has actually had to fight within her own borders?
The UK sure had plenty of wars within such borders prior to Culloden. There are plenty of instances where thousands of troops fought each other over who should be the CEO of Britain.
Sweden's an anomaly, but they got awful close in WWII, and they were basically Hitler's dog in terms of troop transit and war goods until he was losing the war. Had they put up firmer resistance, Sweden would not have stood.
A perceptive and historically backed observation.
...
So let me repeat: we are not any less aggressive than we were even a century ago, never mind 6000 years ago. If anything, we are more aggressive.
That depends entirely by who is meant by 'we.' Are China and India included in this 'we?'
Here is a decent approximation of actual casualties due to war, political and ethnic violence, genocide, famine, and the direct demands of human sacrifice among some religions. Unfortunately, it does not cover most deep past examples of anything other than war casualties due to lack of data.
Perhaps a deeper examination of the data may lead to a different conclusion, particularly when viewed in terms of percentage of population, rather than raw numbers.
To me the data indicates most all humans at any time in history are capable of both massive violence and cruelty, regardless of geography. I see no modern trend toward Europeans being more 'evil' or indeed as a percentage of the population, more 'cruel' than anyone else on this planet.
I vote for modern democracies within the last 100 years being less likely to start wars or engage in genocide, perhaps you would like to argue otherwise in the appropriate thread.
{ABE} (to all, not Kuresu) Or more to the point of the thread, how did Darwin cause the An Shi Rebellion, the Mongol Empire, the Taiping Rebellion, Timur, Napoleon, The Thirty Year's War, or the Yellow Turban Rebellion, just to start? I'm all ears (eyes).
Edited by anglagard, : Attempt to be on topic

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon
The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by kuresu, posted 03-30-2009 1:58 AM kuresu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by kuresu, posted 03-30-2009 8:55 AM anglagard has not replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 946 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 37 of 438 (504570)
03-31-2009 4:32 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Taz
03-31-2009 3:43 AM


I Call BS, Plain and Simple
Taz writes:
I don't think this is what he was trying to convey. Let me break it down and see if I got it right.
According to Oni...
(1) The natural tendency for a sociaty is to trie to progress
(2) Progres leeds two better living conditions
(3) Better living conditions lead to better social value for human lyfe
(4) Better social value for human life leads to less quarrels
(5) Less corals lead to less agresion
I don't think he's saying people over all are getting less aggressive. I think he's saying natural selection favors societies that are more prosperous because of the reasons I outlined above.
You sure make it difficult to agree with when you intentionally misspell. But I realize from your previous posts, there is some difficulty in conveying when to be taken lightly and when to be taken seriously.
I completely disagree with those who say modern humans, as opposed to their ancient or medieval counterparts, are somehow less moral and more aggressive, particularly when it refers to democracies.
Since it is obvious that in this pseudo-argument, no side can actually click on a highlighted web site ala creationist fanatics, I will offer it again in a less mistakable format.
Death toll - Wikipedia
Please take note that while WW2 is #1 and WW1 is #6, the An Shi Rebellion, Mongol conquests, the Manchu takeover, and the Taiping rebellion are #2-5.
And even given Greek democracies and Roman Republics, how many were slaves?
All this talk about how modern humans are somehow 'more evil' than their ancient counterparts is simple bullshit that probably comes from residual effects of self-hate preached by false interpretations of religion and apparently, and unconsciously, continued by false interpretations of history among some so-called atheists.
Edited by anglagard, : a few well placed commas (whether Taz likes it or not )
Edited by anglagard, : add some to so-called since not all atheists are clueless when it comes to history

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon
The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Taz, posted 03-31-2009 3:43 AM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by kuresu, posted 03-31-2009 6:24 AM anglagard has not replied
 Message 48 by Taz, posted 03-31-2009 5:12 PM anglagard has not replied

  
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