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Author Topic:   Morality! Thorn in Darwin's side or not?
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4755
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 220 of 438 (739811)
10-28-2014 5:55 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Cedre
03-28-2009 8:28 AM


The question that recurred in my mind was why there is goodness or in other words why righteous men exist who strive day by day to become less selfish and more selfless. Why do folks care about the feelings or welfare of others when it has no bearing on their own welfare? Put in evolutionary terms, why is there such a thing as if you would unbeneficial humanitarianism where an individual’ survival success will not be impacted or rather positively impacted directly or indirectly by his or her care giving/taking of others.
Someone once answered this question as follows that perhaps the giver of these seemingly selfless acts is committing them because he too may require them sometime in the future if he also falls into the same position that the current recipients of his love and care have fallen into at the moment. Therefore if one should judge it from this angle it turns out that it was never unbeneficial humanitarianism but still the same old selfishness. The problem with this reply is that it is cheap and tacky it hardly answers the question or even describes it well.
Logically, there isn't an "evolutionary" answer that is NOT an excuse. Every single suggestion for an answer with the selfish gene, is plastic and conjectural. which means that every suggestion they make can't be tested. Think about it, if you help mother, it's your selfish gene, if you help mother's friend it's the selfish gene, if you help mother's friend's dog, it's the selfish gene, if you commit suicide it's the selfish gene, if you stand on four legs howling at the moon it's the selfish gene if you're Elvis Johnny-cake Jonah from the planet Mars it's the selfish gene.
Please somebody show me how to refute something that is so plastic that any answer you give is, "evolution". RIDICULOUS.
It's exactly the same thing as invoking the insanely improbable. One can simply say in regards to the improbable event, "ahh but given enough time".
UNFALSIFIABLE.
Therefore the PHILOSOPHY of evolution is logically IRRELEVANT to the died-in-the-wool FACTS you have just stated.
Any direct FACTS that favour theism, and favour Christianity, have to be dealt with by materialists in one of two ways;
1. Say the fact is illusory.
2. Deny the fact.
I refer to this personally, as, "Arguing-To-The-Extreme".
To argue to the extreme-level, is to either deny reality, or try and fudge over reality with speculation. But just because people speculate, doesn't mean their speculation/philosophy, is then true.
Christians have provided one of the most satisfying answers to this enigma.
Exactly. A fully functioning mind and conscience is a thing of reality, which is why a cheap-philosophy designed to PRETEND reality is not there, does not satisfy you.
There are other examples of scientific facts which none-scientific or atheistic-evolutionists argue away, realities they, "play down".
Examples:
-Freewill. (doesn't really exist")
- Design. ( only and "appearance")
- Morality (only "relative")
- Human uniqueness. (By giving example of rudimentary, irrelevant similarities in animals, playing the "quantitive" game.)
- DNA, (not really "information")
Cedre, if you are still around I implore you to accept reality for what it is, not philosophy based on guesses. Evolution doesn't explain the human condition, and never did. They can give excuses, but we don't have to buy them.
Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Cedre, posted 03-28-2009 8:28 AM Cedre has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 221 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-28-2014 8:40 AM mike the wiz has replied
 Message 224 by Stile, posted 10-28-2014 9:43 AM mike the wiz has not replied
 Message 226 by ringo, posted 10-28-2014 12:33 PM mike the wiz has replied
 Message 232 by Modulous, posted 10-30-2014 9:05 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4755
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 223 of 438 (739831)
10-28-2014 9:32 AM
Reply to: Message 221 by Dr Adequate
10-28-2014 8:40 AM


How is it not relevant? You only STATED it was not relevant.
I read his post? I don't get why you would say this, since my response was the same topic? It is possible I cross-posted, as I occasionally do, when I am lost in thought.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-28-2014 8:40 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-28-2014 2:46 PM mike the wiz has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4755
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 228 of 438 (739874)
10-28-2014 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 226 by ringo
10-28-2014 12:33 PM


Evolution is a singular term, "religion" is a generic term, that could even include atheism.
That was easy.
If you need clarification - I mean that when you say, "religion", you are referring to a wide and diverse spectrum of differing beliefs, but when I refer to evolution, I am referring to one specific theory.
Therefore, in a way I agree - because I don't have, "religion" nor did the post I created ever refer to anything, "religion".
I'll take you through the baby-steps.
1. Freewill isn't "religion".
2. Intelligent design isn't "religion", and eye being constructed to see has nothing to do with Buddha.
You should know by now, you are not going to get me, "easy" but I must admit the kudos for your post was truly amusing. lol
Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.
Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by ringo, posted 10-28-2014 12:33 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 231 by ringo, posted 10-29-2014 11:44 AM mike the wiz has not replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4755
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 229 of 438 (739876)
10-28-2014 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 227 by Dr Adequate
10-28-2014 2:46 PM


Since responding to me you have made several claims, but I haven't seen even 1% content thus far, to prove any of them. I haven't seen you quote anything I have said, and I haven't heard any type of argument to go along with your claims.
Surely a world-record in stupidity.
Example:
Claim 1:
Cos of having no relevance.
Claim 2:
I assumed that you would read a post before replying to it
You might have well just have said, "mike, I hate you because of what you said about evolution."
To which I could have said; "I know." The we could have said, "good day." to each other.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-28-2014 2:46 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
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