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Author Topic:   evolution of human hair
Peter
Member (Idle past 1501 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 31 of 55 (82089)
02-02-2004 8:07 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Silent H
01-28-2004 5:32 PM


quote:
This may have more to do with the aging process than with survival. A long time ago we didn't really live long enough to have that as a major issue in survival or mate selection.
Except that most men who loose hair start to do so when
quite young (20-30) ... while many older gents (my dad
included at 75) still have as thick a mop of hair as when they
were younger.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Silent H, posted 02-02-2004 12:21 PM Peter has replied

  
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5841 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 32 of 55 (82120)
02-02-2004 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Peter
02-02-2004 8:07 AM


They key words were a LONG TIME AGO.
Someone correct me if I am wrong, but the average lifespan (before tool use became common) was well under 30. That meant that most of life and reproduction was carried out before hair loss would become an issue for survival or mate selection.

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

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Replies to this message:
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Stephen ben Yeshua
Inactive Member


Message 33 of 55 (82138)
02-02-2004 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Silent H
02-01-2004 2:33 PM


H.
You ask,
That's a new one on me. How does adaptation support both? It stems from evolutionary theory. Creationism simply says God made us the way we are.
Which is why creationism is such an ugly lie. But, in our experience, creators often, usually, make things with a purpose, and we would hope that our Creator, if we have one, was not so whimsical as creationists might have us believe. Thus, in dealing with Jehovah as a Creator, done in science and truth, we ask and search out why He made what He made the way He made it. We see the world (hypothetically, at least) as meaningful in every detail, reflecting the richness of His mind and heart. Wonderfully complex, to be figured out in an infinite search to know God, by seeing wisdom, His wisdom, in His creation.
Stephen

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Taqless
Member (Idle past 5935 days)
Posts: 285
From: AZ
Joined: 12-18-2003


Message 34 of 55 (82163)
02-02-2004 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Gilgamesh
01-28-2004 5:29 PM


Similarly guys with higher testosterone grow facial hair faster.
But, what study have you read that shows higher testosterone levels in certain ethnic backgrounds. Because there is definitely a difference between Asian/North American Native Americans facial/body hair and a Western European? Would one then say that testosterone levels are lower in the former?
Is there serious difference between the amount of hair on an unshaved European woman and man? It is a serious question.

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Taqless
Member (Idle past 5935 days)
Posts: 285
From: AZ
Joined: 12-18-2003


Message 35 of 55 (82166)
02-02-2004 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Gilgamesh
01-28-2004 5:17 PM


I actually heard that Asian hair is round (and hence straight) and the curliest hair is asymetrical.
As far as I know straight vs. curly (and in between) is the amount of disulfide bonds in the protein.

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Peter
Member (Idle past 1501 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 36 of 55 (82465)
02-03-2004 3:06 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Silent H
02-02-2004 12:21 PM


Not sure what the evidence is for shorter lifespans,
but I apologise anyhow .... thought you were talking generally
rather than specific to the pre-tool folks.

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Peter
Member (Idle past 1501 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 37 of 55 (82467)
02-03-2004 3:11 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Taqless
02-02-2004 2:25 PM


Re: Testosterone and ethnicity:
I think you are right, there must be more to it than that,
but testosterone seems to play an imortant role.
Re: Hairy European women:
Unshaved women tend to have hair in many places , but
few grow full beards, chest hair, back hair or belly hair
in the large quantities that a lot of European men do.
...or at least few that I have had any close dealings with ....

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.4


Message 38 of 55 (82501)
02-03-2004 5:52 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Silent H
01-30-2004 6:51 PM


I was thinking of the celts, the picts, the goths, the visi-goths and the scottish clansmen. Although, thinking about it, the picts rubbed ash in their hair to spike it so they don't count. I'm also pretty certain that the vikings and the huns wore their hair lose.
However, I've not really researched hair-styles through the ages - so my information could be wrong. I'd also suspect that hair is less of a problem once you've got sword/axes and shields anyway; so this could well be an irrelevance.

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Taqless
Member (Idle past 5935 days)
Posts: 285
From: AZ
Joined: 12-18-2003


Message 39 of 55 (82539)
02-03-2004 9:57 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by Peter
02-03-2004 3:11 AM


but few grow full beards, chest hair, back hair or belly hair
in the large quantities that a lot of European men do.
...or at least few that I have had any close dealings with ....
LOL, yeah, forgot the beard and chest...I was thinking in terms of equivalent growth areas, but you're right. I've seen the infrequent older woman who forgot her estrogen though .

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Silent H
Member (Idle past 5841 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 40 of 55 (82573)
02-03-2004 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by Peter
02-03-2004 3:06 AM


quote:
Not sure what the evidence is for shorter lifespans
Now that you mention it, I've never actually tried to find out what data has been used to make the case that people died so young long long ago. But I do know that I've heard it said a lot in documentaries.
Hmmmmmm... maybe a new topic, inquiring minds want to know!

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

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Silent H
Member (Idle past 5841 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 41 of 55 (82575)
02-03-2004 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Dr Jack
02-03-2004 5:52 AM


Celts, scottish clansmen, and picts, from what I am aware, wore some type of headcovering/headband. The Goths, vikings, and huns wore helmets whenever they were available. I believe the Vikings also braided their hair.
I am willing to accept contrary evidence, but will agree that what you pointed out is part of my argument... once you have weapons and armor, hair length tends to be less of a factor.
This is one reason I am wondering whether this difference in max hair length (between head and body hair) came after tool use, where sexual significance would play more of a role than survival.

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

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Peter
Member (Idle past 1501 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 42 of 55 (82964)
02-04-2004 4:27 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Dr Jack
01-29-2004 11:13 AM


I've read that unwashed hair cleans itself, and
can be in much better condition than our trend for
constant washing .... never seen this corroborated though
and never been able to leave my hair unwashed long enough
to check it out.

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.4


Message 43 of 55 (82966)
02-04-2004 4:32 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by Silent H
02-03-2004 11:53 AM


Now that you mention it, I've never actually tried to find out what data has been used to make the case that people died so young long long ago. But I do know that I've heard it said a lot in documentaries.
Age of skeletons from graveyards. Age of death in recorded data. Lifespan in 'primitive' peoples still present in todays world.

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Peter
Member (Idle past 1501 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 44 of 55 (82968)
02-04-2004 5:07 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Silent H
02-01-2004 2:21 PM


quote:
For sake of argument I'll just assume I have been living around the upper half of the bell curve on hair growth.
Me two I know a few ladies whose hair has reached close to their
ankles, let alone knees. One in particular had never had her
hair cut -- ever (at age 17 and about 5'3") -- and had to have it tied or braided to stop it trailing on the floor. Another I knew
was similar -- hair very long.
And since most people cut their hair I'd really like to see
some data to back up the report.

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Peter
Member (Idle past 1501 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 45 of 55 (82973)
02-04-2004 5:28 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by Dr Jack
02-04-2004 4:32 AM


Graveyards and records from when?
A walk through the graveyard of my parish church,
with gravestones dating back to the 1600's, shows
many people living into their 70's over the last three hundred
years.
If we are talking extremely ancient human populations
we have no data to make an assessment. Fossils don't
help since they are few and far between.
Even in historical times there are finds which cast doubt
on the lower life expectancy suggestion. Roman remains of
a whole group of elderly women for example, Sir Isaac Newton maybe.
Also, if the graveyards are from times when there were known
plague, famine, war-torn conditions they may not be indicative
of earlier life-expectancies.
Perhaps average life expectancy is not a good metric, since
it is the young who are more likely to expose themselves to
danger/risk so that avg life expect measures risk-exposure
rather than life-span?

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