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Author Topic:   evolution is IN the bible!
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 1 of 31 (98226)
04-06-2004 8:38 PM


Gen. 6:8 But Noah, the predecessor of the Modern Homo Sapiens which were to emerge, found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
Gen. 6:9 These are the generations of humanity that followed Noah, the three racial stocks of Homo Sapiens that followed:
Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked, he experienced the Reality of the nature of the universe into which he had been evolved, he thought rationally and realistically, compatibily with the Creative Power, his God, The First Cause, being Absolute Total Energy.
Gen. 6:10 And Noah begat three sons, three Homo Sapiens members from his racial stock; Shem, the Mongoloid Stock; Ham, the Negroid Stock; and Japheth, the Caucasian Stock.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Gary, posted 04-06-2004 9:11 PM kofh2u has replied
 Message 9 by Trixie, posted 04-07-2004 5:03 PM kofh2u has replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 4 of 31 (98271)
04-06-2004 11:12 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Gary
04-06-2004 9:11 PM


Would you quote the KJV of Genesis 6:1 and explain in identities,...
1) sons of God =
2) sons of man =
3) daughters of men =
4) The Nephilim =
5) children = men of renown =
Genesis 6
1 When the sons of man, humanoids, early forms of men, began to increase in number on the earth, around the end of the Pilocene Age in the Quaternay Period of the Cenozoic Era, and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God, or that line of humanoids which would ultimately branch into the humanity which is yet to come, Homoiousian Men whose mental capability shall correspond, one-to-one, with the Ultimate Reality which we call God, they, hominoids sons, saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3 Then the LORD said, essentially, in this process of adaption to the environmental reality, "My Spirit (evidenced in the Natural Laws governing this world) will not contend with man in this present stage of development forever, for Neanderthal Man is mortal, he dies, is genetically recreated, but improveable through that process by the refining fires of Evolution which I have so devised; his days will be ended in a hundred and twenty thousand years."
4 The Nephilim, great animals of all sorts, Homo Erectus, post-dinosaurs, and such, were on the earth in those days-and also afterward-when the sons of God, Early Homo Sapiens, went into the daughters of men, hominoids such as Neanderthals, and had children by them. They, these children who were the predecessors of Modern Homo Sapiens yet to come, nevertheless, they were the heroes of old, men of renown.
5 The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart, that is, his psyche, was only evil, self destructive, and in defiance of the realities of "Father Nature" all the time. 6 The LORD, Father Nature, as we might say, was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain, but, sadly, the axe stands at the tree of life and MUST hack off every branch that has failed to adapt. 7 So, the LORD, "Father Nature," said, metaphorically, "I will wipe from the face of the earth mankind, these lower forms of humanoids, whom I have created, and their conscious thoughts -men and all their conscious awareness of animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air, all memory and every mental abstraction of them, in the mind of these humanoids-for I am grieved that I have made them." 8 But Noah, the eponym for the whole line of the species Modern Homo Sapiens, found favor in the eyes of the evolutionary process utilized by the LORD, our Universal Reality.
9 This is the account of Noah.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Gary, posted 04-06-2004 9:11 PM Gary has not replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 5 of 31 (98277)
04-06-2004 11:26 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by SRO2
04-06-2004 9:21 PM


Re: He doesn't care what the KJV says
Gary, I am applying the understanding I have about reality, the world I live in, to my reading of scripture.
I have tremendous respect for the Bible. At one and the same time have all due respect for the wisdom of our times.
I believe the the power of the Almighty, the Universal Force, The Prime Mover, The First Cause, or Father Nature is undisputably master of us all. I am convinced this is the God of the living, Yahweh of the old testament.
The definition of pre-Christian religion is animism. The belief in spiritual worlds and evil immaterial ghost-like entities possess us from the outside is opposed th the Freudian insights that these seven spirits are at large and well in the kingdom within.
I ask you, "If these scriptures do not concern the matter of Human Behavior," if Freud and Carl Jung have little to add to our knowledge about scripture, "what is the Bible about?"
Satan = Libido
Lucifer = Id
Baalzebub = Self
Mammon = Ego
False Prophet = Superego
False Shepherd = Harmony Principle
Devil = Anima/animus
And, of course,
The Holy Spirit = Conscience

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by SRO2, posted 04-06-2004 9:21 PM SRO2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by SRO2, posted 04-06-2004 11:34 PM kofh2u has replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 7 of 31 (98426)
04-07-2004 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by SRO2
04-06-2004 11:34 PM


Translations and interpretations
The reason I do my interpretation is that there is none elsewhere.
There is nothing wrong with the original manuscripts in Hebrew, if we had them, nor the Dead Sea Scrolls, or the Greek, or the Latin translations of the Bible. There is nothing wrong with the translation of the KJV.
That mistakes were made in the choice of synonyms is all, going from one language to the other, is understandable. The choices made reflect to some degree what the pre-set thinking of the translator assumed was the message he was changing to an understanding in another culture and language.
Example:
The KJV does not translate the word "magi," in Matthew 2. This Persian word was left without translating the obvious meaning in English because the Christian culture in England was certain that the Bible was 100% against cults and astrologers, and magicians. Of course, magi is the root of the word "magician." In the Presian tongue magi, the three kings the KJV has taught us to say, means "Astrologers."
That was why they were following the sign of a star to Bethlehem. These men were the first visitors to pay respect to the messiah, and they were Astrologers! The KJ translators refused to write that.
Proof? The latest Catholic edition of the Bible uses Astrologers.
Now, in this example, you can see the significance of getting INTERPRETATION from translation. The idea that maybe Persian Astrologers from modern day Iran were on to something, were acceptable visitors, knew Jesus before us... hmmmmm... maybe interpretation is the path to understanding what the word for word translation is trying to communicate.
Interpretation in scripture is encouraged. In Revelation 13 we are asked, if wise, to figure out the puzzle of 666. ANd, of course, interpretation has created twelve different major Christian denominations plus seven Fundamentalists Organizations. They can't all be interpreting both correctly and differently.
So, reading the bible line by line and placing the supposed meaning one gets from the Translation as Interpretation of symbolism, metaphor, simile, parable, exaggeration, analogy, and the literal leads to a continuum of thought. The sum of that reading and interpretation into what it means to the person reading it seems as normal and natural as reading a math book.
But, the reason I do my interpretation is that there is none elsewhere. Is there?
The Urim and Thummim Ex 28:30
The Iron Rod Rev 2:27
the keys Lu 11:52
dry bones Ez 37
cherubim Ez1, Ez10, Rev 4, Rev 5
seal of God Rev 7:3
repetitous seven
seven facet stone Zech3:9
four horsemen Rev 6:2-9
square ? breastplate Ex39:9
seven seals Rev 5:1
new name for God Rev 3:12
secret name Rev 19:12
secret names Rev 2:17
cube shaped New Jerusalem Rev 21:16
blacken sun Rev 6:12
stars falling from heaven Rev 6:12
Moon turned to blood Rev 6:12
666 Rev 13:18
name of God on forehead Rev 7:3
Jesus, morning star Rev 22:16
two oil trees Zech 4:11
horned altars Ez 27:2
new song Rev 5:9
tree with twelve manner of fruit Rev 22:2
24 elders Rev 4:4
crown and bow Rev 6:2
Strange Hebrew rituals from Leviticus:
Lulav
tabernacles
kiddish
Seder plate
cohanim hand blessing
more... much more....
[This message has been edited by kofh2u, 04-07-2004]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by SRO2, posted 04-06-2004 11:34 PM SRO2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by SRO2, posted 04-07-2004 1:52 PM kofh2u has replied
 Message 26 by apple, posted 04-21-2004 10:44 PM kofh2u has replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 13 of 31 (98504)
04-07-2004 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by SRO2
04-07-2004 1:52 PM


Re: Translations and interpretations
Well, I might be tempted to go along with you: that it is a dirty job, interpreting the Bible, but someone must do it. But, no. That's not the point.
The point is that those who have interpreted the bible were just guys in the past generations. People like you and me, humans reading and thinking critically.
That is just what the churches have all done. All have done so with the guidance of men in that long past day of their own particular denomination's inception.
And, half of ll churches today have come into being in the last century!
This is to say that men, like you or I, have read the scriptures, read available resources, and in their opinion expressed their take on the meaning of scripture as they see it.
That millions founded a church, (now twelve different denominations) by such means, does not preclude the re-reading and a critical exegesis in the light of more modern understandings of the reality we live in.
Isaiah says it: "...a little here, a little there, ... line on line...
Paul says it: "We see dimly now through glass..."
EXAMPLE:
Jehovah Witnesses were founded @ 100 years ago. The whole movement began with the realization that the God of the KJV Bible actually had a name, YHVH, Jehovah.
Or, so they thought and taught, and teach.
Actually, the Hebrew alphabet of Scripture has no letter for "J." There was NO LETTER "J' in the Hebrew Alphabet!
What the Jehovah Witnesses thought was a J, was really a Y.
So Yahweh is the real name.
(These people should call themselves Yahweh' Witnesses. But, if you ask them about this little itty bitty thingee, they will deny that their movement started with the assertion and ridicule of christians in other denominations,... ridiculing them that their church didn't even know the name of the God they worshipped.
The pot calling the kettle, huh?)
But, there are a number of reason why I, personally, feel that my own insights are important enough to express, over and beyond the freedom of all to join in with these now ancient ancestors.
One reason is the partial list I gave you of things NO ONE has been able to explain. (Find me ANYONE's explanation on these things.) There is none. Or, if there are wild guesses, they do not fit in elsewhere in the scriptures.
I mean, take the verses below. UFO's just don't cut it as an answer to what these four faced creatures are, not for me. And, as most "experts" will tell you, these are spirits in heaven.
Lame.
I mean, yes, I know they are something related to the idea of spiritual concepts. By why are we told about them if we can't relate them to the other ideas of Jesus?
What's your take on these verse, rocky, you are a scientist with incessant curiosity, you say?
Ezek. 1:5 Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man.
Ezek. 1:15 Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with his four faces.
Ezek. 1:6 And every one had four faces, and every one had four wings.
Ezek. 1:10 As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by SRO2, posted 04-07-2004 1:52 PM SRO2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by SRO2, posted 04-07-2004 6:14 PM kofh2u has replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 15 of 31 (98510)
04-07-2004 6:23 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Trixie
04-07-2004 5:03 PM


Re: By your own admission.....
Trixie,
rocky never told me he had such a bright and pretty wife!
Or, is that avatar some icon I don't recognize?
Right, The Theory of Evolution is not in the bible. But the concept of seven long Geological Time Periods, the seven Eras of the Geological Clock seem to be recognized in the seven Yom's of time found in Genesis.
Yes, presenting Genesis in a translation which chooses more wisely the synonym for Yom as "Era," a long duration, instead of 24 hour day is no volation of the integrity of scripture.
Integrity would suggest that people who elect to pick "24 hour day" from the synonyms listed in the Hebrew, and who run into controversy with the facts we know today ought be faulted, not the guy who chooses the right synonym. But, let the blood of the Eucharist be on my hands and the hands of my children, if you insist.
Rev. 11:6 These have power to shut heaven (to religious discourse), that it rain not (controversy reign not) in the (1000 years of) days (of the Dark Ages) of their prophecy (the Old Testament and the New Testament): and have power over waters (of the masses Catholicism) to turn them to blood (of the Eucharist) and to smite the earth (of Western Culture) with all plagues (of Inquisitions), as often as they will.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Trixie, posted 04-07-2004 5:03 PM Trixie has not replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 16 of 31 (98517)
04-07-2004 6:46 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by SRO2
04-07-2004 6:14 PM


Re: Translations and interpretations
1) Yes, you tell me you are a scientist. So, it is excusable that you are auch a poor literary critic.
I didn't ask you to BELIEVE what the bible says. I asked you to tell us in you opinion and after a lot of critical research, or even find someone else's criticism.... what is htis litersture saying? Why would thiese verse be in there? How can these be explained in the things 2 billion christians explain all the time? How do they, the two billion Christians in their twelve denominational churches explain these ideas in complement to all eles they so willingly and unrelentingly explain to all for free?
2) My point is that neither you nor they have, or seem able, or seem to want to, explain these wierd things, like they are unimportant, right?
Except for one thing.
They reappear again and again... in the last book of the bible, The Revelation. And they appear for whole chapters as they do in Ezekiel 1, and Ezekiel 10. We read about them in Revelation chapter 4, Revelation chapter 5, Revelation chapter 6, and Revelation chapter 14.
That's a lot of four faced wierdo beasts that haven't had even a suggestion made concerning them other than, "its a spiritual thingee"...
3) I mean, as a scientist, is what I got here a Literary Hypothesis or not?
If I can explain them in a continuity of other supporting ideas in scripture, should I just sit on it, my criticism? (Don't answer that, I know what you want me to sit on.)
More to the point, does Oscam's Razor rule if they incorporate quite nicely with the other matters in Revelation and especially, throughout Ezekiel, explaining away ez chaoter... the whole chapter 37, on "dry bone coming alive?
I mean, as a scientist, is what I got here a Literary Hypothesis or not?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by SRO2, posted 04-07-2004 6:14 PM SRO2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by SRO2, posted 04-07-2004 7:34 PM kofh2u has replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 19 of 31 (98537)
04-07-2004 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Muhd
04-07-2004 7:12 PM


Literal,metaphorical,symbolical,analogously,similes,...rationally...
Of course not.
Only a fool would take a medium such as literature, and read it without anticipating the writers techniques. Writers, divinely inspired or otherwise, express themselves in about seven distinctly differ ways. That is: there is a technical process used.
Jesus spoke parables, for instance, which we have recorded verbatim, supposedly. We certainly are to read them as such, analogies.
The symbolism of Revelation, in particular, is just that. Symbolic dictionaries are a companion to good critique.
Nothing could be more metaphorical than the spiritual descriptions we read in scripture, for sure.
I mean that the whole process of intelligent literary critique is essential to changing the scriptures into the thoughts we are to understand about them.
Is it literal, with merely terminology of the 20th Century substituted, that I identify the "seven spirits" and the "sevenfold nature" in God and hence, in ourselves, in the image of God, as the seven recently recognized spirits that can and do possess us?
1) Id = The Pleasure Principle = Lucifer
2) Libido = Physical Drives = Satan
3) Ego = The Aggressive Drive = Mammon
4) Anima = Feminine principle of Intuition = Devil
5) Self = The Reality Principle = Baalzebub
6) Superego = The Logical/Mathematical Mind = False Prophet
7) Harmony = Psychic Balance = False Shepherd
The eighth emerging psychic factor has been brought to our attention by martyrs.
8) Conscience = Brotherliness = The Good Shepherd
Rev. 1:4 ... Grace be unto you, and peace, ...; and from the seven psychic Spirits which are before his throne; Id, Libido, EGO, Anima, Self, Superego, Harmony...
Rev. 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand,... The seven stars are the psychic angels, Id, Libido, EGO, Anima, Self, Superego, Harmony...
[This message has been edited by kofh2u, 04-07-2004]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Muhd, posted 04-07-2004 7:12 PM Muhd has not replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 20 of 31 (98539)
04-07-2004 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by SRO2
04-07-2004 7:34 PM


Re: Translations and interpretations
Of course not.
First you get criticized for post nothin' of substance, and now I criticize you for insubstancial reading of posts.
I said "regardless of believing what you read in scripture"... what does it say.
Now consider this. You are posting EVERY day, here and of netscape. The boards you come to are concerned with differences of opinion.
Science on one hand, Scripture on the other.
Myself, a Physics background, feel fairly at home in these formums. I have studied your science. So I talk to science people about the Bible I have researchered.
Now, how can you plead ignorance of the Bible? Are you telling us that you neither read the Bible nor care to? Are you answering us every day without any idea concerning the content of scripture? Are you saying that you are a PART TIME science person? That SOME TIMES you think logically and rationally, but not here, on these boards? Here you quip and make fun of, and besmerch, and denigrate about a subject you have zero knowledge of? Is that what you are saying"
How can you have the audacity to be on these forums?
Are you an ignoramus... a person who knows nothing about a subject but SUBJECTS people who do to his ridicule?
Nay, not you. You are a top guy according to my friends down there at NASA. By the way, do you ever accompany the guys who host the Science Conventions?
Now.. admit I'm 100% right or answer my previous questions, i gotta go soon.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by SRO2, posted 04-07-2004 7:34 PM SRO2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by SRO2, posted 04-07-2004 8:35 PM kofh2u has not replied
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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 27 of 31 (101880)
04-22-2004 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by apple
04-21-2004 10:44 PM


666
Hello apple,
The reasons are seven.
1) 666 for the Human Intuition:
One reason, it pricks our intuition. There are many people, always have been, in every
generation who "love" mystery. There are today, and there always has been, an
audience which appreciates the puzzle and the challenge of this 666. God knew many
people would like this 666 idea! I guess its in there just for the devilment of it.
2) 666 for the Human Self:
Another more rational reason, less a spiritualism of the Anima, is that it reflects upon the
Reality Principle. The bible writer recognizes that we think, and read, and reflect in the
mental state of the Human Self, the focal of our Semantical Intelligence. Realistically,
then, 666 is a ploy since it was intended that these scriptures "self" perpetuate
themselves in the next generation, forever. They have, in fact, represented the "Best
Seller" in all generations. So, the reason was also practical. This 666 thingee has had a
pretty good run in the advertising department of God!
3) 666 for the Human Libido:
Then, there is the mystery of how the number actually means a particular person. This
reflects on the common sense observation of our very Libidinal response to the life we
are living.
Though it need not mean only one unique person, it concerns a spiritual or attitudinal
way of thinking and acting. It also implies that it will be a recognizable type of person.
It has proven to be true, finding such attitude and behavior in every generation,
especially at some very high level of social control.
These observations and reports of previous 666 types helps support the Freudian claim
of a presence of "Seven types of Human Behaviors" emanating fro our psyches. So, it
has empirical proof value. People say they saw 666 types.
4) 666 for the Human Superego:
This is because "666" represents an archetypal manifestation. There IS the "666" way
of behaving. It means that the Nietzcheian "Power of the Will" concept is an ever more
prominent, and growing, and maturing psychic entity in our society. Nietzche pretty
much voiced the culmination of the Social Superego with us today, in this logical
scientific age. We see 666 is a giant sociological manifestation. It is our present
science/technology, the fruit of the Logical/Mathematical apparatus of our minds.
in this, it is the False Prophet, the meaning of 666 as stated in Revelation 13: 13-14),
heralding a better tomorrow for mankind. This is all supported by people's
observation. This is empirical. Seeing is believing. We have historical accounts, and
even speculations today, that superego self-willedness and powerful cold human logic is
and always has been a characteristic human quality.
This numerology, 666, has had a wide application in every generation. The number 666,
and the behavior has always seemed to be a pretty good match for someone in every
age. This all seems to focus physical attention, looking, seeing, watching for the
behavior of such mini-666 personages This is just as it has done in our own generation
where a Maxi-666 surely has been among us.
So, in part, 666 is data. Empirical observed evidence that as certain characteristic human
attribute, The Superego" transcends death, like a demi-God, or Evil Spirit, or the False
Prophet, or The Anti-Christ, of Sci-Technology. 666 IS.
We see how Nietzche's statements reflected openly on the mental complex of the Human
Superego, especially today, in his claim the "God is dead." More and more people are
saying this. The Social Superego is very noticeable, true? This age is 666.
We see how this thinking goes back to Roman Caesars who could believe themselves to
be God. We see that 666 is in us all. We all have this sixth Freudian archetypal step in
our psychic maturation. And today, mankind represent the sixth major Hominoid
manifestation, Modern (6) Homo (6) Sapiens.
7) Cut to the finish.... 666 is for the sake of Human Harmony in religion.
The reason 666 was to interject, somewhere, in these sacred passages was to establish
that there is a Hebrew numerology.
This is what the Jews call their mysticism, the Kabbalah. They have lost the art and
understanding of this "Secret Esoteric Doctrine of Israel." But, ever Rabbi has
something to say about Kabbalah, and many synagogues contemplate the lost wisdom,
read and write about Kabbalah. None can explain it and its importance to understanding
scripture.
For the Christians, long taught that the Gentile Numerology thingee was evil, and
instructed to run like a plague was upon them, the numbers 666 forever holds open the
door to their edification on this "Hidden Manna" mentioned in Revelation 2:17.
The secret also has to do with understanding what Jesus was doing that so shocked his
community. His mother and brothers, along with many of the Jews thought he had
gone mad. He used his hand, spread in a strange way, fanned out, to baptize with fire!
So, the most important reason for 666 is so I can not be refrained from exposing the
unknown Hidden Manna, and the mystery of the priestly hand of resurrection, and
means by which Jesus exercised evil spirits.
This number 666 has the attention of all Christendom, and their priesthood's have NO
explanation that makes concrete sense. Neither about 666, Jewish Kabbalah, or the "fan
in his hand"... (Matthew 3:11-12)
So, 666 puts all this on the table and the pharisees can not merely wave the discussion
away into the realm of numerology and evil. They MUST entertain explanations since
they are without any themselves. In this 666 is a biggy in Christianity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by apple, posted 04-21-2004 10:44 PM apple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by apple, posted 04-23-2004 11:39 AM kofh2u has replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 29 of 31 (102226)
04-23-2004 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by apple
04-23-2004 11:39 AM


Re: 666 Why?
Obviously because people want proof, they will not take advice.
You ask, why does the bible couch ideas in mysterious numbers and say things that are hidden? Why did Jesus tell the apostles things that he did not tell the crowds?
For starters, telling people about behavior, especially their own has little effect. The number 666 is part of an empirical proof that every age has been able to relate to some expression found in someone well known to all that fits the bill of a Superego dominate personality. Alwaya a Nietzche type has been observed, "God is dead" and we don't need Him anymore. The False Shepherd type.
Surely that will not suffice for you. But, why would you demand that the message be so clear? Most people, and I believe yourself included, would argue the message no matter what. So, what the scriptures did was use Human Behavior, since these writings claim to so thoroughly understand us and our society. Used scripture to form a 2 billion member army of Christianity.
This was accomplished right in the midst of Pagan Rome. What ever else we might think, there was and is some clear message, a mystery perhaps to you and others, but the whole world changed as predicted.
That is no mystery, it is evident. The mystery is the Behavioral Science in the Book that did this, The Word, and the Word made flesh.
Matt. 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by apple, posted 04-23-2004 11:39 AM apple has not replied

  
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