Evolution of the Brain

LOL One should point out a possible source of religion ...Political and Social Science

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The engine by which mystical ideation becomes cultural doctrine includes three primary components: insanity, evil, and feebleness of mind. The insanity is embodied principally by schizophrenics, though also by individuals with certain other types of brain disease. The evil is embodied by the power lusting second hander. The feebleness of mind is embodied by ordinary people, ...

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Schizophrenics have minds that are qualitatively different from those of non-schizophrenics - in a manner of speaking, they do not have human minds. The difference is genetically correlated, and is anatomical and neurochemical in basis. The mind of a schizophrenic has a threshold of awareness and recognition that is either too low or too high. This has a variety of calamitous results for his capacity to think rationally. Of interest here are those whose threshold of awareness and recognition is too low, so that hallucinatory sensations and delusory patterns are perceived. Associations between meme vectors (as discussed in The Origin and Evolution of Culture and Creativity by Liane Gabora) are faulty, since effectively the association filter's Q is too low (that is, its region of sensitivity is too large). The schizophrenic is impaired in the formation and comprehension of fine analogies, since the low Q cannot maintain the distinctness of the two ideas whose symbolic topologies are being mapped together. Instead, they form artificially course analogies, artificially mapping together ideas that are not actually related. This results in their telling fanciful tales of unlikely causality, poesy, and lexical invention. They weave fantastically diverse memes into a largely senseless, but artful and memorable tapestry. L. Ron Hubbard was a schizophrenic.

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Or at least that's one website's explanation ...

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Join the effort to unravel {AIDS/HIV} {Protenes} and {Cancer} with Team EvC! (click)

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand

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RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

I don't subscribe to a xian god, let alone creationist ideas. I had a very brilliant astro-physicist uncle (very anti-religion) who claimed he saw god in a physics equation. He developed late-onset bi-polar which was quite amazing to me. I hadn't seen him for over twenty years. The man I had known was extremely easy-going and even-balanced. His bi-polar made no difference to his mental abilities at all. I have also heard another scientist, in a different field, say the same thing about science and god. For want of an explanation, their concept of "god" was in science. It elludes me completely why some xian religion groups are creationists. Evolution, I thought, would sustain their belief in a their god much more cogently. One creationist told me that fossils million years old, proven by scientific methods, were put on earth to test their faith. I hope I am not offending anyone on this site here, as this is not my intention.Now to business: Regarding Bicameralism, I used to hear the distinct sound of my name said in my mother's voice. Not often, but enough times to be aware I have had this experience.. As she was thousands of miles away this was obviously impossible. It was just my name, nothing else, and only said once. It came in no association with anything I was doing, eating, drinking, etc ... I hope none of your are recoiling from your keyboards at this moment!! ... At the time, I put it down to imagination. Since her death some three years ago, it hasn't occurred. Now that the concept of Bicameralism has been raised, is it possible this it bicameral residual activity. Also, has anyone on this site experienced such incidents ...?Regarding schizophrenia, if it did have a genetic compenent/s as some propose, and if the gene was removed from the geno-pool, do you think it would have an effect on the evolution of the human brain. I recall Lewontin, I think, stating that removal of deleterious dna may, in fact, be counter productive - like a stitch being removed from a jumper. Also, I wonder how many humans are truly outstandingly, original and creative thinkers - not just adapting others' ideas. Incidentally, I do not have schizophrenia, so there is not vested interested in this topic. By far, I associate myself with the limbic system process ... I have been tested with an IQ of 153. I understand that this is above normal, but certainly it has not proven of benefit to me ...As schizophrenia appears to be related to language, does this mean that the particular person's languge skills, and application of it, in their own language is well above average - or they also have the skill of picking up other languages easily, including speaking and writing them; or is it in abstract thought and the ability to express it. I always associated a peron's ability in their mother tongue related to their environment. Socio-linguists explains that language is associated with context. A scientist would use language in a completely different way in a lab., than he would at home with children - perhaps!?.I am also very interested in paleoscriptography. This "appears" to be a recent development. Would this have any linkage to schizophrenia ...? Or is there some other evolutionary reason for it. I live in Australia, and the different aboriginal races (and there have been three identified) have no written language. They communicate thier belief systems through motifs. Also, aboriginal painting, uninfluenced by other cultures, is represented from a bird's-eye view.Is there evidence of schizophrenia, or other such conditions, appearing in our nearest neighbours, apes? I understand that research has found that apes can be taught sign language - and have expressed without prompting abstract thought, albeit at the most basic level. I suspect if they were liable to major mental disorders, natural selection would have bred this out.This is a really long stetch of the bow ... and may bring those on this site to disbelief that someone could actually even mention this. But, is there any possibility that such mental disorders were a necessary part of the evolution of the human brain, or a product of it. Is this very much putting the cart before the horse?

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Lucy

I`ll bite, Lucy, what the hell`s paleoscriptography. Naught in dict.com. You like to write ancient scripts?

The question is whether God subscribes to you.Welcome to EvC

To RAZD thank you for the reference and also the site Political and Social Science, which led onto another site something "demon ...". It is always important to take all sides into a debate. I will read these at my leisure. Regarding the "demon ..." site, I didn't like the music for a start ... and the advertisement for skin care products at the bottom I thought grossly inappropriate!Regarding the quote you supplied, I will have to read it more closely. I was immediately drawn to "the feebleness of mind is embodied by ordinary people" ... considering the collectiveness dottiness of some groups, I have to admit that this does resonate somewhat.

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Lucy

Nightrain,It is the development of writing. A very good site to start is: Omniglot - the encyclopedia of writing systems and languagesNow, I will get back to my other venture - knitting jumpers for penguins. And Nightrain, I kid you not! These are needy critters who have been caught in oil slicks and need wearing apparel. Actually after my last lot went off, I was informed they they didn't need any more from me. As a good friend of mine was moved to say: "the ungrateful little wretches" .If you want a pattern I can send you it. I always design mine as French fishermen, or sailors ...

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Lucy

Iamo, I don't subscribe to a xian god. I did send my sons to the Jesuits, as they were the only group of excellent educationists who are also independent thinkers. The headmaster of this school was an adviser to NASA. I know the Jesuits cause shock and horror amongst a lot of catholics. This school had "critical thinking in religion" as one of their subjects. A student stated he did not believe in god. The Jesuits accepted this without being phased (albeit some of the parents were).
Coming from Ireland, I imagine you know the reputation held by Jesuits I have been told they are not permitted to be popes. Sometime ago, a recent pope had to remonstrate with a Jesuit, a pastor, of a small village in South America, whose flock were engaging in extra-marital sex. I understand this is a mortal sin leading immediately to hell. Because of their miserable existence, the Jesuit responded that sex to them was "the opera of the people". I respect your beliefs and would do nothing to try and diminish them. However, I am not sure this is the site on which to debate particular religous beliefs - but is about evolutionism versus creationism.

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Lucy

Dr Adequate, Thank you for the googling on my behalf. I am aware that one sickle-cell allele protects from malaria, and if you get two alleles you are in dire s ... Also that sickle-cell allele developed in a particularly bad area for malaria, but is rare in other human groups.As malaria was a necessary precipitant for the defensive sickle-cell allele to develop; do you think there may also have been a pre-existing condition for a defense process in the form of allele/s of schizophrenia. Do you know of any studies which indicate a prevalence in one group of peoples over another? Of course, it would mean that the groups would have had to been fairly static and/or isolated!!!Do you feel that allele/s of schizophrenia were necessary for the development of the human brain. I think I put this question in a slightly different form earlier. I think I also asked whether there is evidence of it,or other major disorders, having been in our nearest ape relatives.

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Lucy

Dear iano,I did place a comment about Christian fundamentalism on the Forum site: "Antecedents to modern-day Christian fundamentalism." It also explains how the anti-semitic Blood Libel started. You might find it interesting, and I certainly welcome any comments or queries.RegardsLucy

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Lucy

No, I don't think that the schizophrenia alleles promote immunity to disease. The analogy with sickle-cell anemia is that, in genetics, it's possible to have too much of a good thing. And also, when we see a genetic illness occurring at such a high rate in the population, we should suspect that the underlying mechanism is like that.There are alternate hypotheses, though. For example, maybe there is an ensemble of dozens of genes, a mutation in any one of which causes the wide range of symptoms which we lump together under the heading of schizophrenia.You want a third hypothesis? Here's one. This chap thinks that schizophrenia is caused by modern diet. An analogy might be diabetes; this also has a genetic component, and there's a lot of it about, but this is not because we evolved diabetic tendencies, but because we evolved to eat the fare of hunter-gathers, rather than our modern high-fat, high-sugar diet, and evolution has yet to catch up.Some supporting evidence may be found here

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Dohan et al. found that symptoms of schizophrenia were relieved somewhat when patients were fed a diet free of cereals and milk. He also found that people with coeliac disease - those who are unable to eat wheat gluten because of higher than normal permeability of the gut - were statistically likely to suffer also from schizophrenia. Research in some Pacific communities showed that schizophrenia became prevalent in these populations only after they became "partially westernised and consumed wheat, barley beer, and rice".

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To really answer the question, we would have to know a lot more about the genetics of schizophrenia and of the human brain generally than is currently known: I wasn't kidding when I said "come back in twenty years".---Chimpanzees don't get schizophrenia.---I also have hallucinated my mother's voice saying my name, though in my case always when dropping off to sleep (hypnagogic hallucination).Your experience is not uncommon. This article might interest you.

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Hearing voices in your head is so common that it is normal, psychologists believe. Dutch findings suggest one in 25 people regularly hears voices.

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Contrary to traditional belief, hearing voices is not necessarily a symptom of mental illness, UK researchers at Manchester University say.

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Indeed, many who hear voices do not seek help and say the voices have a positive impact on their lives, comforting or inspiring them.

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Researcher Aylish Campbell said: "We know that many members of the general population hear voices but have never felt the need to access mental health services.

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"Some experts even claim that more people hear voices and don't seek psychiatric help than those who do."

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Some who hear voices describe it as being like the experience of hearing someone call your name only to find that there is no one there.

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Dr Adequate, Thank you for explaining this. I understood that as far as sickle cell allele was concerned, it went something like this. A person contracted malaria, but survived causing a sickle cell allele (like immunization) to develop. This could be genetically enhanced by breeding with another such survivor, thus passing onto their offspring, resistance to malaria. However, as soon as I wrote this I saw great gaps in this argument! A person can experience malaria many times in their life, survive, but never become immune to the disease. Necessarily there must be some other component at work.As for hearing voices, I must admit at the time I just thought it was imagination. However, if the voice wanted to engage in conversation ... that is another matter completely. I would be hammering at the door of the nearest mental institution.Very disappointing that it will be another twenty years or so before the matter of schizophrenia is sorted out - along with the other more complex workings of the brain. I will just plug away on this site with more basic questions - perhaps the findings on the development of alzheimers and senility. Such as why with certain mental declines, other talents emerge.

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Lucy

As you suggest your initial thoughts on the origin of sickle cell alleles were fundamentally mistaken. The hypothesis you describe is much more akin to some form of Lamarckian inheritance of an acquired characteristic.The genetic basis of Sickle cell anemia is a single amino acid substitution in the hemoglobin protein. If this mutant form of hemoglobin reaches a certain proportion in the cell then it will aggregate in large clumps and lead to the cell itsef taking on the sickle morphology.This mutation occurs spontaneously and sporadically entirely independently of malaria. In normal circumstance these mutations are deleterious in heterozygotes and normally lethal in homozygotes. When endemic malarial infection is factored into the environment however there is a selective pressure for homozygotes which is strong enough to maintain the presence of the allele despite its othere deleterious characteristics.TTFN,WK

Wounded King,Thank you for the explanation. You have clarified it well for me. I am curious, however, as this appears only in a particular group of peoples.

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Lucy

Sickle-cell is quite widespread: it can be found in Africa, the Middle East and India. Besides sickle-cell anaemia (also known as Haemoglobin S), there's also Haemoglobin B, Haemoglobin C, Haemoglobin D and Haemoglobin E, of which E (found in Southeast Asia) and C (in West Africa) are the most common. Haemoglobin C has few negative effects, and seems to be pushing sickle cell anaemia out of the African gene pool.As their names suggest, these are genetic changes which produce variant forms of haemoglobin.There are also a set of conditions known collectively as thalassaemia, in which some of the genes coding for globins (we have several sets) are simply deactivated. These also protect against malaria. Thalssaemia occurs in malarial regions around the Mediterranian.Now those are just the mutations protecting against malaria which affect haemogloblin production, i.e. they all affect the same set of genes.Other mutations which protect against malaria by affecting other genes and other aspects of the red blood cell include the Duffy antigen null mutation (in Africa), Melanesian elliptocytosis (in the Pacific) and G-6-PD deficiency (in Africa, the Mediterranean, India, and S.E. Asia).Wherever there's malaria, natural selection has favored such mutations.

Dr Adequate,What you have told me is quite fascinating. I never knew thalasimia was in any way connected with sickle cell anaemia, although in retrospect, I can see the similarities.
Do these conditions, when morbid, have the same outcome at the same age group. Also if one parent carries the sickle cell mutation and the other parent carries the thalasimia mutation what is the likely outcome for the child.As New Guinea is known for the problems of malaria, I would have thought that there may
have been some "mutation" there. It seems to be related to specific human groups.Now, Tay Sachs which is exclusive to the Jewish community; is this in any way connected with the others. Although I believe that it is incurable, unlike sickle cell anaemia. Also I thought that Tay Sachs had a cognitive developmental problem. Are there any other conditions similar in other groups?As language, from what I understand, is one of pivotal movements away from our nearest relative, I thought that perhaps scizophrenia was somehow associated with this. Obviously, I was very wrong. What were the initial defining breaks. At what stage did language develop? However, I must do some personal research before bothering you again with questions. Perhaps you could suggest online sites, or texts which may be helpful. This way, I won't waste your time so much. Mental disorders and abilities which attend them are truly a fascinating area, such as idiot-savants.Just another thing, do you think that a mentally ill person can respond to what another mentally ill person creates. For example, I experienced extremely bad post-partum depression. The sight of Van Gogh's painting "sunflowers", however, had a horrifying effect on me. At that point, EVERYTHING became two-dimensional. Houses looked like cardboard cut-outs, I couldn't tell distances of car-lights, etc. My sense of reality was completely overturned. It was a truly terrifying experience. To function, I had to rein myself in, by reminding myself that there was another reality beyond what I was experiencing. It took enormous will-power to talk, act and appear normal. I have never heard of women having this type of experience during post-partum depression - no matter how bad. As Van Gogh had mental disease, I was wondering if somehow this painting was responsible for triggering this "other" reality, in an already fragile mental state. I realised that I needed psychiatric help. The psychiatrist, didn't comprehend the true situation. I found out later that he was presenting garden flowers to his patients to see their response. Not good at all ...! Now van Gogh's "sunflowers", or any other of his paintings, have absolutely no effect on me. But I do believe that this painting had triggered a psychosis of some kind.

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Lucy