Carnivores in Creation

I've heard on creation websites and creation speakers and forums and what not that in the beginning all animals were herbavores. I've heard that lions ate plants and even still do these days, and a bunch of other reasons and ideas for animals becoming carnivores. But i do not know where all these animals specialized in killing and eating meat came from. Example: Sharks, Raptors(the dinosaur), saber tooth cats, alligators, spiders, camelion, Mantis Shrimp, etc.And what about the animals with specialized defence mechanisms. Example: Poison dart frog, Porcupines, blow fish, etcSo how would these traits have been used in a perfect world where there was no death and no need for animals to kill one another or defend themselfs. Or how would animals have gained these traits after the fall of man?

‘Even the venom apparatus in snakes may have been used to inject an enzyme to soften food. So, many things may not necessarily have been designed for killing other animals. But it does indicate in the Bible that God restructured some organisms. 'As for your question about how they got 'killing' skills, in a deteriorating world they would have to adapt.Afterall Creationists agree that sin and deterioration HAVE happened. Did you know sometimes snakes will only 'nip' children and not inject venom?
Have you heard of the lion that wouldn't eat meat?

Wait... so you would argue that *poisons* can evolve?Please explain to me again where you draw the line between micro and macro evolution.

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Did you know sometimes snakes will only 'nip' children and not inject venom

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Did you know that the venom is how snakes fight off serious predators (and in some cases help digest meat), and that it takes a good bit of time (and energy, for a creature with such a slow metabolism) to re-create?

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Have you heard of the lion that wouldn't eat meat?

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Strange that this can only be found on vegatarian, creationst, and scattered unaccredited websites? You'd think that it might warrant, oh, say, a mention in Nature or any other credible source? And I'm a vegetarian, BTW, so I support things not eating meat...Heck, the book that talks about the "vegetarian lion" is published by Theosophical Publishing House.C'mon:'He turned to look at me with serious eyes, then asked,"Don't you read your Bible?" I admitted I didn't read it as much as I probably should. He continued, "Read Genesis 1:30, and you will get your answer." At my first opportunity I got my Bible and turned to the passage he had indicated. To my astonishment, I read these words: "And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to everything that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

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The owners of Little Tyke, though apparently not Christians, were so reassured by this that they no longer worried about her refusal to eat meat..."'That reads like a Chick Tract. Ok, so there's these non-Christian American lion-owners with this miraculous lion which never gets published in a respectable source. Sure. Let me tell you about my hippopotamus which can juggle...So, did the platypus's poison gland evolve after the fall? The muscle structure, bone structure, tendon structure, tooth structure, digestive system, and claw structure of cats? The electric sense of sharks (detects creatures with nervous systems hiding in the sand)? Parasitic organisms - did they eat grass? The grazing tapeworms of the Serengeti? What about things unrelated to predation, but hard to picture in a perfect world, such as the same-sex stab-rape mating method of bedbugs?------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

Hiya, Mike.So by this line of reasoning we should expect to find at least a couple of pre-fall fossils of, say, Smilodons or Velociraptors with teeth (among other features, no doubt) designed for a herbivorous existence, correct?You wouldn't happen to have an example of one these "pre-adapted" fossils, would you? Wasn't he in the zoo---right beside the cage with the creationist that didn't believe in God? -Macavity

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Have you heard of the lion that wouldn't eat meat?

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Felines die without meat.

You obviously have no concept of the difficulty of subduing and eating one of those vicious and wily Jurassic Carrots, do you?

"So by this line of reasoning we should expect to find at least a couple of pre-fall fossils of, say, Smilodons or Velociraptors with teeth (among other features, no doubt) designed for a herbivorous existence, correct?"acually no. If carnivores had teeth for eating vegetation on day 6 when animals was created (with man), then man sinned, and animals and man began to degenerete, and one of these degeneartions is in the teeth, then there would be a time before the flood when carnivores had molars for grinding vegetation.By the time the flood came (which preserverd the fossils) carnivores might have already developed the large carnivorous teeth, therefore even though carnivores that originally ate plants did exist, they may not have been preserved as fossils because they had degenerated before this time.

This is assuming that mankind sinned right away, which is not suggested by the text.Adam was created and then God rested, then we are into the second creation myth before Eve was created. So there is at least one day when there was no sin in the world, there was more than likely a longer gap though.Brian

Lol! And the Velociraptor's claws were actually designed to do floral vegetable carvings, I suppose?-Macavity

Hoju,You seem to be under the impression that fossils are formed only after a creature covered with sediment rots away, leaving an impression or mold. While this is one method of fossilization, it is by no means the only one.Petrifaction of wood (or bone) and plant carbonization both spring to mind as alternate methods of fossilization. Also, insects encased in tree sap and animals frozen in ice are considered fossils. And let's not forget trace fossils while we're at it: Insect tracks, footprints, tail marks, etc. You're not going to insist that the flood accounts for these as well? Sorry, but this sentence just does not make any sense to me. I still don't see why we should not expect to find a plant-eating "carnivore" fossil. Could you rephrase your argument? A timeline might be helpful too.-Macavity

there was one lion that wouldn't eat meat. I'm not sure if it totally proves anything or not, but there sure was a vegitarion lion. No Taste for Meat? | Answers in Genesis

Vegetarian? Ovo-lacto vegetarian. Eggs and milk were crucial components of its diet. Not exactly feasible for wild lions.

Read post #3. 'Nuff said.------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

Fossils?
There are human bones from all time frames that are being discussed. I'm not aware that they are, or need to be, fossilized in any way.We only need a few samples that are protected and away from the surface. It is understandable that more human remains would be available since they were frequently deliberately buried.Now someone is making a claim that suggests that not a one of the "old forms" happen to have any remains perserved. This is while numbers of the present forms are preseved spread across all the interesting time periods.How conpletely credulous are we expected to be?

Not really, just the 'usual' in my view. There are two evo responses I get.
1. The website is not a good one because it is Creationist.
2. I can't find anything you have said on the web.However, if Someguy is 'evo' I must admitt his response was not the 'usual', but rather a better one.