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Author Topic:   What is evolution?
Granny Magda
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Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 14 of 122 (456255)
02-16-2008 4:08 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by ICANT
02-16-2008 3:22 PM


Re: I Know
Remember subbie asked for my definition of the ToE.
He did not ask for the definition of evolution.
So why did you immediately start talking about the "Big Band" Theory, as you call it? You have a damn cheek.
Using my definition of evolution what is being preached is:
About 13+ billion years ago there was something about the size of a pea. It was very, very, very hot. It was very compact as it contained everything you see in the universe and everything you cannot see.
What has that got to do with the ToE? Physicists do not base the Big Bang theory on biological evolution you know. This is just another example of creationist goalpost shifting and question dodging.
I also notice that you have made a reasonably long post without even once attempting to do what Subbie asked you to, namely to define the ToE for our general edification. If all you can do is quote Webster's (a lousy dictionary by the way) and whine about biogenesis, then we must assume that you are unable to define the ToE on your own merit and we can close up this thread.
I think it is a cop out when evolutionist say we only want to debate Biological evolution.
Don't be a child. The topic of this debate is "What is Evolution" and Subbie made it quite clear that he had the ToE and biological evolution in mind. This is the biological evolution thread. To complain that one is expected to discuss biological evolution in the biological evolution thread is ridiculous. If you want to discuss the Big Bang, you know where the appropriate thread is.
AS I said you guys can't even agree among yourselves.
That gave me a giggle. It is especially rich coming from a creationist, since we all know that there are dozens of flavours of creationism, as opposed to near universal agreement amongst biologists as to what the ToE means. Pot. Kettle. Get a grip.

Mutate and Survive

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by ICANT, posted 02-16-2008 3:22 PM ICANT has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by AZPaul3, posted 02-16-2008 4:51 PM Granny Magda has not replied

Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 28 of 122 (456288)
02-16-2008 8:35 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by ICANT
02-16-2008 7:29 PM


Re: Getting on Topic
ICANT,
I think that part of the problem here is that you are talking about evolution in a more general sense of the word, whereas this discussion is meant to be about biological evolution. Let's go back to your Webster's cite;
Merriam-Webster's writes:
1: one of a set of prescribed movements
2 a: a process of change in a certain direction :
unfolding b: the action or an instance of forming and giving something off :
emission c (1): a process of continuous change from a lower, simpler, or worse to a higher, more complex, or better state :
growth (2): a process of gradual and relatively peaceful social, political, and economic advance
d: something evolved
3: the process of working out or developing
4 a: the historical development of a biological group (as a race or species) :
phylogeny b: a theory that the various types of animals and plants have their origin in other preexisting types and that the distinguishable differences are due to modifications in successive generations; also : the process described by this theory
5: the extraction of a mathematical root
6: a process in which the whole universe is a progression of interrelated phenomena
We are only interested in the fourth sense for the purpose of this discussion.
The definition of evolution you quote from RAZD in Message 20 is, of course, quite correct, but the point wasn't really to determine whether RAZD can define evolution. He has demonstrated rather thoroughly that he can.
Your definition, as given here;
ICANT writes:
TOE explains how all life came from this single cell life form. We do not attempt to find out how it formed we just believe it happened.
This single cell lifeform began to change and formed multa cell lifeforms. These multa cell lifeform changed enough over time to produce every living and extinct lifeform that has ever existed on earth and exist today.
is somewhat scanty, but basically right. It isn't really a complete definition of evolution, but rather an over-simplification. It's incomplete, but its not wrong.

Mutate and Survive

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by ICANT, posted 02-16-2008 7:29 PM ICANT has not replied

Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 49 of 122 (466011)
05-12-2008 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Wumpini
05-12-2008 11:05 AM


Re: Factual Claims
Hi Wumpini,
Wumpini writes:
lyx2no writes:
On Earth the set of facts does include life becoming cellular some time before 3.5 billion years ago, becoming multi-cellular further on and then broadly diversifying some 500 million years ago.
It is statements like these where I see the communication problem between scientists and ordinary folks such as myself.
I think you're splitting hairs somewhat here, but you do nonetheless have a point.
Look at it this way; evolution is a fact. It has been observed both in the lab and in the field. The explanatory framework used by scientists to explain this fact is the Theory of Evolution. The theory is subject to doubt and tentativity, but the events observed are real.
Also, scientists can't predict the weather because of Chaos Theory. Weather is innately unpredictable because it is an unbelievably complex and interconnected system. Chaos isn't a consideration when digging up fossils.
Edited by Granny Magda, : Tidying up.

Mutate and Survive

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Wumpini, posted 05-12-2008 11:05 AM Wumpini has not replied

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