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Author Topic:   Anatomical Vestiges -- Evidence of Common Descent
molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2669 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 1 of 34 (417247)
08-20-2007 12:47 AM


Vash and I have been having a discussion on anatomical estiges over on The Definition for the Theory of Evolution.
He seems to think common descent is bunk.
Here is the anatomical vestiges link he has been referring to.
I proposed I start a new topic and that we discuss them one at a time, starting with human embryonic tails.
It's well known that, in rare cases, "true human tails" have been documented. It is also well known that a fetus grows, and the resorbs, an embryonic vestigial tail.
An atavism is the reemergence of a lost phenotypical trait from a past ancestor and not specific to the organisms parents or very recent ancestors.
Rational Response Squad
The tail's appearance and disappearance in utero is an atavistic trait. It's evidence of common descent.
What's your take on it, vash?

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by EighteenDelta, posted 08-20-2007 1:41 PM molbiogirl has not replied
 Message 16 by iceage, posted 08-21-2007 9:12 PM molbiogirl has replied

  
molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2669 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 6 of 34 (417384)
08-20-2007 6:46 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Chiroptera
08-20-2007 2:07 PM


Chi, should vash show up here, I hope you'll stick around to help.

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molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2669 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 8 of 34 (417389)
08-20-2007 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by EighteenDelta
08-20-2007 7:17 PM


Re: appendices
Oh 18! Help too please yes?

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Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Coragyps, posted 08-20-2007 8:51 PM molbiogirl has replied

  
molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2669 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 10 of 34 (417411)
08-20-2007 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Coragyps
08-20-2007 8:51 PM


Re: appendices
eee hee hee!
This is going to be a par-TAY.

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 Message 9 by Coragyps, posted 08-20-2007 8:51 PM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Chiroptera, posted 08-21-2007 8:18 AM molbiogirl has replied

  
molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2669 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 12 of 34 (417523)
08-21-2007 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Chiroptera
08-21-2007 8:18 AM


12 hours and counting.
I'm hoping he won't continue his "Nuh-uh" routine. I'm not as patient as you are, Chi.
To wit:
It depends. I think that people could (and should be encouraged to) take the opportunity that some of his posts give to give substantial replies to various topics, like I've tried to do.
But with you and 18 and Cora by my side, oh the wonders we will work!

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 Message 13 by Parasomnium, posted 08-21-2007 6:48 PM molbiogirl has replied

  
molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2669 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 14 of 34 (417555)
08-21-2007 8:57 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Parasomnium
08-21-2007 6:48 PM


Re: Why not just keep asking?
Pars, in principle, I agree.
I know you are familiar with his work, but for those who aren't.
A taste of the vash to come:
Most of the rest is telling stories on how life must have evolved. No science in stories.
On vestiges, i would say i doubt whatever research has gone into this subject.
Silly HOE's (hypothesis of evolutioners)
Why then the need to bandy words or debate semantics where an advantage for Camp Evolution would be gained by keeping the desired brevity of definition?
Nice wording. What about when life was created by a creator and "evolution" is just a variation within a kind.
I don't know what "biologically useful" means, and why it isn't useful to identify birds as things in the sky, and fish as things in the sea, and animals as things on the land and humans as the fallen masters of this world.
Instead of the "Theory of Evolution" it should be called the hypothesis of evolution.
The HOE. I like the bandy of words here at evc
The intro gets you buttered up by playing on semantic mind games.
Most of the rest is telling stories on how life must have evolved. No science in stories. The phylogenic tree makes astounding claims as to what evolved first, but this is based on mostly vertebrate life forms, what about the invertebrate? You know, most of the fossil record. I'd like to see a phylogenic tree from the cambrian layer of invertebrates.
yeah, i understood the yarns that spun my brain around unneccesarily. hypothesis on assumptions on hypothesis dabbed with some theory and even some facts to top it off.
The fact is the conclusions might be considered science by the extreme religious zealots in the fundamentals of HOE, however the initial guesswork assumptions are not. Or maybe its vice versa. whatever.
Like I said before, vestigial parts are freakin hilarious. I saw one today about the ear ridge on a human. I mean c'mon! Where do they come up with this stuff.
It's a religion, and should be left out of the definition of evolution.
As for joining miobio chik on a debate thread about vestiges, i'll do it. I haven't laughed enough this week. Although it's going to be pretty hard to convince me that whale reproductive anchor bones are tiny vestigial legs. lol that gets me every time.
I almost forget how good HOE's (hypothesis of evolutioners) are at assuming things. That kind of faith could be put to good use. ;p
Why is it always the opposition that doesn't understand? If I really wanted to immerse myself in scientific literature I'd watch certain porn. Because nothing screams ridiculous like midgets and absurd obesity.
Anywise, I used my superior techniques of speed reading (of which you are completely ignorant and stupefied) to skim the all of the articles. I had read them a few times prior to enlisting to EvC so I am aware of "evidences" for macro evolution. Which I think is a bunch of fairy tales and that's how I would paraphrase it to someone who hadn't read it.
Do you have any idea of the physics involved in sex magic?
You clearly are ignorant of science. ME: 4.3 billion You: 0
With minor editing for brevity's sake, this is nearly the entire opus from RAZD's thread.
Content free, belligerent, and dragged a perfectly fine thread to its untimely death.

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 Message 13 by Parasomnium, posted 08-21-2007 6:48 PM Parasomnium has not replied

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molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2669 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 17 of 34 (417633)
08-23-2007 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by iceage
08-21-2007 9:12 PM


Re: Hammering tacks with a computer kekboard
IDers insist that "god doesn't make junk"; therefore, there is no junk DNA.
I wonder if junk DNA counts as an anatomical vestige?

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Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Chiroptera, posted 08-23-2007 3:22 PM molbiogirl has not replied

  
molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2669 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 20 of 34 (417732)
08-23-2007 10:34 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Nighttrain
08-23-2007 10:00 PM


Re: HOEs and redheads
I haven't any idea what you are talking about.
What have redheads to do with anatomical vestiges?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Nighttrain, posted 08-23-2007 10:00 PM Nighttrain has not replied

  
molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2669 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 32 of 34 (418640)
08-29-2007 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Fallen
08-29-2007 11:45 AM


ID is not science
prodi writes:
Intelligent Design is a scientific research program dedicated to finding and analyzing signs of Intelligence like Behe’s irreducible complexity or Dembski’s complex, specified information.
ID has published a grand total of 8 papers in peer-reviewed scientific journals.
talkorigins.org writes:
One week's worth of peer-reviewed papers on evolutionary biology exceeds the entire history of ID peer-review.
prodi writes:
If my understanding is correct, staying on topic is an important issue on this forum. Would you mind moving this discussion to a more appropriate topic so that this thread stays clean and simple?
You're right. So any discussion of ID, irreducible complexity or complex specified information should be taken to another thread.
Unless, of course, you'd care to demonstrate how a particular anatomical vestigial is the result of design.
Edited by molbiogirl, : No reason given.
Edited by molbiogirl, : dupe info ... didn't read paulk first

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