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Author Topic:   IC & the Cambrian Explosion for Ahmad...cont..
Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5897 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 159 of 199 (32074)
02-13-2003 1:07 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by peter borger
02-12-2003 4:56 PM


Out of curiousity - how would the GUToB classify Cryptogale australis? We're talking an extinct critter that is smack dab intermediate between the Tenrecinae and the Oryzorictinae, having the skull and certain skeletal details of the Tenrecinae and the dentition and other skeletal details of the Oryzorictinae. Does this count as an intermediate/transitional form? Does Cryptogale represent the MPG of the Tenrecomorpha? If so, where does the Geogalinae and the Potomogalinae fit in, since they are all tenrecomorphs? Inquiring minds and all that...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by peter borger, posted 02-12-2003 4:56 PM peter borger has replied

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 Message 160 by peter borger, posted 02-13-2003 6:16 PM Quetzal has replied

  
Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5897 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 166 of 199 (32203)
02-14-2003 2:28 AM
Reply to: Message 160 by peter borger
02-13-2003 6:16 PM


Hybrid? Not likely - Cryptogale is extinct, and is considered representative of the ancestral (not necessarily the ancestor) form of the Tenrecomorpha. Both the Tenrecinae and the Oryzorictinae are highly derived (i.e., modern versions with specific and distinctive changes). They didn't live at the same time. The point is that Cryptogale is intermediate in morphology between higher-level taxonomic groupings - which creationists claim is impossible, and would apparently be impossible under the MPG idea. Which, of course, is why I asked whether Cryptogale represented the MPG of the Tenrecomorpha...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by peter borger, posted 02-13-2003 6:16 PM peter borger has replied

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 Message 170 by peter borger, posted 02-14-2003 8:08 PM Quetzal has replied

  
Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5897 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 171 of 199 (32318)
02-15-2003 4:37 AM
Reply to: Message 170 by peter borger
02-14-2003 8:08 PM


For this one I think you'll have to go to a library and check out a recent edition of Caroll's "Vertebrate Paleontology". I'm not sure what is available on line, if anything. You might try a search for phylogeny Afrotheria Tenrecomorpha.
However, the question I asked is a simple yes or no: based on what you've been told, scientists classifiy Cryptogale as a transitional. Does it represent a MPG, thus falsifying common descent under your scenario?

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 Message 170 by peter borger, posted 02-14-2003 8:08 PM peter borger has replied

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 Message 172 by peter borger, posted 02-15-2003 7:40 PM Quetzal has not replied

  
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