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Author Topic:   Question about evolution, genetic bottlenecks, and inbreeding
PaulK
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Posts: 17827
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 49 of 123 (503131)
03-16-2009 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by harry
03-16-2009 9:16 AM


Re: Would you Adam and Eve it?
quote:
Ok so this is my point. If we reach this point, where we have narrowed down the most recent common ancestor down to two people in our quest to find one (if my definition is correct). Plenty of others could have contribured to the gene pool, but these are the direct ancestors.
No. You have found TWO common ancestors. The most recent common ancestor *might* be the most recent of these two or (more likely) is another more recent individual.
That is because (ignoring complications) the Y-chromosome lineage ONLY considers male-to-male (father-to-son) descent. The mitochondrial lineage ONLY considers the female line (mother-to-daughter). To find the MOST recent common ancestor we must relax those restrictions to include all lines of descent.
quote:
(Althought I am note sure. If the common ancestor of everyone today, had kids with only one woman as you suggest, they would both the M-Eve and Y-Adam, as they are both the most recent examples of where everyone got their chromosomes.
This is not true. Even if the most recent common ancestors were a strictly monogamous couple, with no other partners, it would probably be false. For the man to be a Y-chromosome Adam everybody must be descended from one of his sons. For a woman to be the mitochondrial Eve everyone must be descended from one of her daughters. But to be the most common ancestors all that is necessary is that everyone must have (at least) one of their children - son OR daughter - as an ancestor.

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 Message 44 by harry, posted 03-16-2009 9:16 AM harry has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by harry, posted 03-16-2009 12:37 PM PaulK has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17827
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 59 of 123 (503160)
03-16-2009 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by harry
03-16-2009 1:28 PM


Re: Would you Adam and Eve it?
quote:
Now all you need to do, is extropolate this to where one son split off to be a chimpanzee, and another split off to become humans.
Presumably you mean to take the most recent male-line common ancestor of both chimps and humans. In that case the male lines of common descent for chimps and humans would lead back to different sons of this individual.
But what is the point ? Once we remove the restriction of looking only at a pure male line we may find that both of the sons are common ancestors of humans and chimpanzees - and we would almost certainly
find that there were other common ancestors amongst the population of that time. The existence of common ancestors does not in itself apply bottlenecks.

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 Message 54 by harry, posted 03-16-2009 1:28 PM harry has replied

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 Message 60 by harry, posted 03-16-2009 3:57 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17827
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 77 of 123 (503204)
03-16-2009 7:22 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by harry
03-16-2009 3:57 PM


Re: Would you Adam and Eve it?
quote:
Can we confirm there must a single most recent individual common ancestor to all humans? Or do we disagree on that to?
I don't think that there is anything that rules out multiple common ancestors in that generation.

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 Message 60 by harry, posted 03-16-2009 3:57 PM harry has not replied

  
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