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Author Topic:   "Best" evidence for evolution.
jar
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Posts: 33895
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 251 of 830 (869644)
01-02-2020 7:18 PM
Reply to: Message 250 by AnswersInGenitals
01-02-2020 7:10 PM


Re: Message 107, topic 7: other stuff
Reality also has more than two species and even mutable species.

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jar
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Posts: 33895
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 256 of 830 (869661)
01-03-2020 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 255 by JonF
01-03-2020 11:17 AM


And one more thing
And it's important to remember how selection works. Any new mutations that are not so detrimental that they prevent that individual from reproducing can get passed on. So even partial changes that are not so serious that they keep the critter from reproducing are not selected against.

BUT Wait...there's more.

Any mutations that confer an increased advantage in breeding or survival are selective passed on.

That means the neutral or positive mutations can continue but the negative mutations are selectively removed.

Mutations plus Selection guarantees that there will be new species over time.


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Replies to this message:
 Message 257 by Faith, posted 01-03-2020 11:30 AM jar has replied

  
jar
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Posts: 33895
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 259 of 830 (869665)
01-03-2020 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 257 by Faith
01-03-2020 11:30 AM


Re: And one more thing
Faith writes:

As long as you speak in abstract generalizations you can obscure the fact that it won't work.

And yet the reality is that it does work. The Turtle moves.


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jar
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Posts: 33895
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 264 of 830 (869680)
01-03-2020 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 262 by Faith
01-03-2020 5:05 PM


Basics Faith, learn the basics.
Faith writes:

Obviously that makes yhou feel better but it doesn't change the fact that you can't get from one species to another any other way, and there's no way to predict that you're going to get any kind of useful mutations..

Learn the basics Faith. I even explained them to you above but I will repeat yet again.

quote:
And it's important to remember how selection works. Any new mutations that are not so detrimental that they prevent that individual from reproducing can get passed on. So even partial changes that are not so serious that they keep the critter from reproducing are not selected against.

BUT Wait...there's more.

Any mutations that confer an increased advantage in breeding or survival are selective passed on.

That means the neutral or positive mutations can continue but the negative mutations are selectively removed.

Mutations plus Selection guarantees that there will be new species over time.


From Message 256

The beauty is that mutations do happen and selection tosses the ones that are really so detrimental it keeps the critter from reproducing but keeps the ones that are neutral or beneficial.

It really does guarantee that there must be new species over time.

Really Faith, try to learn the basics and throw all the truly silly stuff like Creationism and the Flood and the Christianity you market away.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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jar
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Posts: 33895
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 280 of 830 (869963)
01-09-2020 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 278 by Faith
01-09-2020 5:30 PM


Basics Faith, basics
When life starts as single cell or less organisms there is initially only one direction it can go, towards increased complexity. But once there are more complex critters there are three directions, more complex, less complex and same complexity.

Basics Faith. Learn the basics you have been taught over the last nineteen years here at EvC.


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jar
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Posts: 33895
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 299 of 830 (870038)
01-11-2020 7:12 AM
Reply to: Message 298 by Faith
01-11-2020 6:12 AM


Basics Faith, learn the basics.
Faith writes:

Getting even ONE change that could conceivably be useful seems mathematically impossible to me but I'm no mathematician, so "impossible" is just "impossible" to me.

Once again, learn the very basics Faith.

Mutations happen. We can find mutations in every living critter.

Selection happens. We can see selection happening in real time.

And it's important to remember how selection works. Any new mutations that are not so detrimental that they prevent that individual from reproducing can get passed on. So even partial changes that are not so serious that they keep the critter from reproducing are not selected against.

BUT Wait...there's more.

Any mutations that confer an increased advantage in breeding or survival are selective passed on.

That means the neutral or positive mutations can continue but the negative mutations are selectively removed.

Mutations plus Selection guarantees that there will be new species over time.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 298 by Faith, posted 01-11-2020 6:12 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 300 by Faith, posted 01-11-2020 7:32 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33895
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 301 of 830 (870043)
01-11-2020 7:41 AM
Reply to: Message 300 by Faith
01-11-2020 7:32 AM


Re: Basics Faith, learn the basics.
Faith writes:

Give us a sequence of mutations and selections that could get us from a reptile to a mammal, or just a reptilian organ to a mammalian organ. The generalities are just a way to hide the fact that it's impossible.

No Faith; those generalities show that it is not impossible but rather inevitable.

Does mutation happen Faith?


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Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 33895
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 308 of 830 (870053)
01-11-2020 8:15 AM
Reply to: Message 304 by Faith
01-11-2020 7:54 AM


Re: The Basics are on My Side
Faith writes:

They mean nothing if there is no way to even imagine how you could get genetically from one to the other.

But once again, reality shows you are simply wrong. Not only can I imagine it, I described the model, method, process, procedure and mechanism involved.


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jar
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Posts: 33895
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 381 of 830 (870412)
01-19-2020 7:56 AM
Reply to: Message 379 by Faith
01-19-2020 2:54 AM


Re: Homo habilis feet
Faith writes:

I'm sorry, but trial and error of mutatiobns is obviouslyu the only possible way evolution could ever occur and it's impossible and that's the end of that.

You keep saying stuff like that but never provide any evidence or even reasoning of why it should be correct.

Time for you to actually defend your assertion.


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Replies to this message:
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jar
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Posts: 33895
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 410 of 830 (870579)
01-22-2020 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 409 by JonF
01-22-2020 12:41 PM


Re: My 2 sense worth
Plus modern humans have only been around for a couple hundred thousand years so just a blink out of the likely four billion years there has been life on the Earth. In addition we have modified the variation trends in environmental conditions to the extent we are reducing the variability in the selection process.

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jar
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Posts: 33895
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 444 of 830 (870685)
01-23-2020 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 443 by PaulK
01-23-2020 3:37 PM


Class is Class. Makes sense.
By Faith's definition all mammalia are the same species.

Works for me.

Edited by jar, : fix subtitle


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jar
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Posts: 33895
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 485 of 830 (870822)
01-25-2020 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 484 by Faith
01-25-2020 9:43 AM


What is your model, method, mechanism, process or procedure Faith?
Faith writes:

It COULD be mostly a problem of disagreement since this is a paradigm clash at root, one model opposing another, but such a clash usually also involves redefinition of terms and therefore a lot of misunderstanding.

But you do not have a model Faith and have NEVER been able to present your model, method, mechanism, process or procedure while the conventional approach as developed by Creationist does have model, method, mechanism, process and procedure.

Edited by jar, : fix sub-title


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 Message 484 by Faith, posted 01-25-2020 9:43 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 488 by Faith, posted 01-25-2020 11:00 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33895
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 489 of 830 (870833)
01-25-2020 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 488 by Faith
01-25-2020 11:00 AM


Re: What is your model, method, mechanism, process or procedure Faith?
Faith writes:

Here I'll try again. Life was originally created in separate Kinds, each of which is designed to form hundreds of wonderful variations when isolated into separate populations which brings about new combinations of traits that cause each new subspecies to differ from all the others.

During the Flood the enormous genetic variability that each was created with was severely bottlenecked, but at that time there was still an enormous amount of genetic variability in every individual so that the bottleneck only reduced the heterozygosity in each genome to a very limited extent, allowing for the great number of wonderful variations on all the creatures we see today, including all the races of humanity. I believe we have something like 7% heterozygosity left in the human population and probably some comparable percentage in other species, but at the time of the Flood it must have been much greater, 80%?: 50%?

The Fall had brought death and disease into the world which had previously not existed, though all creatures nevertheless lived for hundreds of years up until the Flood when the changes in the environment brought about by that event, and the genetic bottleneck of each creature, contributed to the decreasing longevity and health we see in the genealogies of the scripture.

It seems you have no idea what a model, method, mechanism, process or procedure is Faith. What you posted is nothing but a perversion of what is written in the Bible stories, poor dogma from your cult at best.

Now maybe you will try again to present model, method, mechanism, process and procedure.


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 Message 488 by Faith, posted 01-25-2020 11:00 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 490 by Faith, posted 01-25-2020 11:18 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33895
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 491 of 830 (870835)
01-25-2020 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 490 by Faith
01-25-2020 11:18 AM


Re: What is your model, method, mechanism, process or procedure Faith?
Faith writes:

I'm sure with time a truly scientific model could be made of that information. For now it really is a sufficient model for the realities of how life came to be and how it varies.

As you say, someday a model might be presented by the new Creationists but we already have the model, method, mechanism, process and procedure that was created with the original creationists; it's called Evolution and change over time. For now though you have no model, method, mechanism, process or procedure; period!


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 490 by Faith, posted 01-25-2020 11:18 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 492 by Faith, posted 01-25-2020 11:27 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33895
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 493 of 830 (870847)
01-25-2020 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 492 by Faith
01-25-2020 11:27 AM


Re: What is your model, method, mechanism, process or procedure Faith?
Faith writes:

Problem is YOUR model is a total fantasy.

Yes, we understand you wish that were true; however the current model is supported by evidence from many different techniques and lines of inquiry and has been confirmed by reality and actual observation for well over a century now.

What is your model, method, mechanism, process or procedure Faith?


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