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Author Topic:   "Best" evidence for evolution.
Taq
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Posts: 8519
Joined: 03-06-2009


Message 61 of 830 (502144)
03-09-2009 9:24 PM


To add one more log on the fire, I would add conservation of exons and divergence of introns to the list. Francis Collins (the guy who headed the NIH Human Genome Project) wrote and excellent essay called "Faith and the Human Genome" (found here). In it (pg 148) he talks about a gene that is conserved across quite a few vertebrates, from puffer fish to humans. He shows how areas of the exons are conserved while meaningless introns become much different through the accumulation of neutral mutations. To me, this is very compelling, especially in the Evolution v. Creationism forums. Why? Well, why would a creator change introns so that they exactly match evolutionary predictions? Why not just copy the introns exactly from one species to the next?

  
Taq
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Posts: 8519
Joined: 03-06-2009


Message 64 of 830 (502292)
03-10-2009 6:33 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by olivortex
03-10-2009 6:15 PM


Re: yep
It is indeed an "important" point in the battle between ID an ET people, once more, the argument didn't stand long.

The IC argument was dealt the death blow before Behe was even born. This is a quote from 1918:

"Most present day animals are the result of a long process of evolution, in which at least thousands of mutations must have taken place. Each new mutant in turn must have derived its survival value from the effect which it produced upon the "reaction system" that had been brought into being by the many previously formed factors in cooperation; thus a complicated machine was gradually built up whose effective working was dependent upon the interlocking action of very numerous elementary parts or factors, and many of the characters are factors which, when new, where originally merely an asset finally become necessary because other necessary characters and factors had subsequently become changed so as to be dependent on the former. It must result, in consequence, that a dropping out of, or even a slight change in any one of these parts is very likely to disturb fatally the whole machinery; ..."--"Genetic Variablity, Twin Hybrids and Constant Hybrids, in a Case of Balanced Lethal Factors", by Hermann J Muller, in Genetics, Vol 3, No 5, Sept 1918, pp 422-499.

The ironic twist is that we should actually expect to see IC systems if evolution is true.


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Taq
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Posts: 8519
Joined: 03-06-2009


Message 67 of 830 (503312)
03-17-2009 5:55 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Sarawak
03-17-2009 5:19 PM


Re: Plants
Our green friends often get ignored.

I avoided them in college, too. I went for a degree in zoology so I wouldn't have to take a botany class. With that said . . .

We often focus on mammalian examples of human breeding programs, such as dogs. However, our cultivars are pretty impressive examples of evolution as well. One of the most impressive is teosinte, the wild version of corn. If you were to run across it in the wild you might mistake it for a wierd looking grass with a wheat-like head. Not so. The evolutio of teosinte into modern corn varieties is a very good story.


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Taq
Member
Posts: 8519
Joined: 03-06-2009


(1)
Message 265 of 830 (869683)
01-03-2020 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 262 by Faith
01-03-2020 5:05 PM


Re: Message 107, topic 7: other stuff
Faith writes:

You all think microevolution just keeps going but that is impossible.

Then show me a single difference between the chimp and human genomes that could not have been accomplished by microevolution from a common ancestor.

Obviously that makes yhou feel better but it doesn't change the fact that you can't get from one species to another any other way, and there's no way to predict that you're going to get any kind of useful mutations..

See above.


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Taq
Member
Posts: 8519
Joined: 03-06-2009


(3)
Message 274 of 830 (869841)
01-06-2020 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 270 by Faith
01-04-2020 9:27 PM


Re: Message 107, topic 7: other stuff
Faith writes:

The genome of any given creature has only the stuff that makes that creature and no others.

Every creature is born with DNA not found in either parent due to germline mutations. This has been directly observed. For example, we have observed that humans are born with between 50 and 100 substitution mutations.

So what stops this process? If each person is born with mutations, what would stop them from accumulating over many generations?

Mutations may change some of the particular expressions of some of its particular code, but it cannot do anything beyond the parameters set by the genome.

If it changes expression, then it has gone beyond the parameters.


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Taq
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Posts: 8519
Joined: 03-06-2009


(1)
Message 579 of 830 (873613)
03-17-2020 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 575 by Faith
03-16-2020 10:57 PM


Re: Ordinary selection of built in variation is not species to species evolution
Faith writes:

Cuz the term implies macroevolution and all that's really going on is normal variation within a species which is microevolution.

It is normal for mutations to accumulate in every generation. You are saying that you can take one step, but you can't repeat the same exact process to walk across the house or down to the store. That makes no sense.

Do you agree that mutations happen in every generation?


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