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Author Topic:   What drove bird evolution?
Wounded King
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Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 30 of 145 (124435)
07-14-2004 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by redwolf
07-14-2004 8:53 AM


Re: flow through hearts and lungs...
Of course having read that they might notice that they only have a 'flow through heart' in the same way that many other vertebrates do, i.e. one which blood flows/is pumped through, so perhaps you should have educated yourself similarly before you posted. The lungs are an interesting feature but not neccessarily required for flight, see bats once again for a counterexample.
TTFN,
WK

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 Message 29 by redwolf, posted 07-14-2004 8:53 AM redwolf has replied

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 Message 32 by redwolf, posted 07-14-2004 10:03 AM Wounded King has replied

  
Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 34 of 145 (124456)
07-14-2004 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by redwolf
07-14-2004 10:03 AM


Re: flow through hearts and lungs...
redwolf writes:
Bats aren't a counterexample. They don't fly anywhere near as fast, as far, or as high as birds do.
And yet they do fly, so flight itself doesn't require these elements. The flight of modern birds may require them, but this poses no problem for them being absent in their present forms in an ancestral bird which may also not have flown as high, fast or far as modern birds.
This seems to be pretty much baseless assertion, do you have any evidence that all of these things are absoloute prerequisites for flight and have no use in a non-flight context. Beaks seem a particularly strange as a choice given, as has already been mentioned, the number of non birds which have them.
TTFN,
WK

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 Message 35 by coffee_addict, posted 07-14-2004 12:10 PM Wounded King has replied

  
Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 38 of 145 (124506)
07-14-2004 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by coffee_addict
07-14-2004 12:10 PM


Re: what's in the jar.
Its a beluga whale embryo, naturally.

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Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 54 of 145 (124679)
07-15-2004 8:34 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by redwolf
07-14-2004 6:34 PM


redwolf writes:
Kind of sounds like there might have originally been flightless versions and flying versions. It's not obvous how fossils could show the difference.
It is just as well then that this research was not based on fossil evidence. The paper
Nature 421, 264 - 267 (16 January 2003)
Loss and recovery of wings in stick insects
MICHAEL F. WHITING*, SVEN BRADLER” & TAYLOR MAXWELL”
is based on phylogenies derived from molecular data.
Admittedly this appears to be a case of 're-evolving' wings only in as much as it probably represents the loss of one or two key genes in the pathway which were then functionally recapitulated not the de novo re-evolution of the entire system, the rest of the developmental mechanism haviong been maintained during the gap due to their roles in other organs, i.e. limb development.
TTFN,
WK

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