Homosexuality, the natural choice? (Gay Animals are Common)

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No, civil rights should not be denied a person because the person is homosexual, but neither should the person be afforded special rules because of the homosexual condition. In other words, the rules of marriage should not be subverted for homosexuals to be able to marry one another.

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Got it. You want them to have equal rights, as long as it's only the rights you want to give them.

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Marriage is an ancient and sacred (in countless religions and cultures) union between a man and a woman for purposes of procreation and child-rearing.

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Divorce is legal, which tosses the whole sacred union angle right out the window.Marriage stopped being about any sort of grand old tradition long before homosexuals started getting uppity and asking to be "treated as people".

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Better to legalize it as a "gay union" than as marriage.

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And while we're at it, how about their own special water fountains?Equal rights, but nice and separate.

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But even then, why discriminate against all other types of people who happen to live together? Provide all of them the same privileges that a man and woman trying to raise a family have.

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We do. It's called a common-law marriage. Live with someone for seven years or more, you're considered married under the eyes of the law, and have all the rights and responsibilities therein. Sort of like enforced enrollment in Little Orphan Annie's Secret Decorder Ring Club if you listen to the show enough times.{Message off-topic - See message 8 - Adminnemooseus}[This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 02-23-2004]

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"Perhaps you should take your furs and your literal interpretations to the other side of the river."
-Anya

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Every one has the right to participate in marriage, a legal union between two members of the opposing sex. There is no discrimination in this.

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Just as once, everyone had the right to marry a person of their own race, and no one had the right to marry outside their race. Are you saying there was no discrimination involved there?

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What you want to do is change the fundamental definition of an institution so that people with no rights to the benefits of that institution can gain access to them.

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First of all, I love that in one breath you say that there is no discrimination involved, and in the second, you talk about wanting to cut people off from the benefits of the institution.Classic.Secondly... just so you know, you're making up your own definition of marriage, and assuming it's the English-language definition.For instance, the following definition comes from dictionary.com: (the emphasis is mine) But given your personal, godsmacworld definition of marriage, I'm confused. Is the Lexus allowed to be advertised as "the marriage of luxury and affordibility?" Luxury and affordability aren't male and female attributes. And you've established that marriage does not mean "a coming together" but in fact means "a legal union between two members of the opposing sex."

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"Perhaps you should take your furs and your literal interpretations to the other side of the river."
-Anya

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they form a liaison, and when it is over, they act as though it never happened.

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Sounds like some girls I knew in college.

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"Perhaps you should take your furs and your literal interpretations to the other side of the river."
-Anya

You know, as always, there's a really easy way to test whether or not this is the case.1) Go to the m4m section of your local craigslist. (Or w4w, if you are female.) Post an ad looking for NSA sex.2) Meet up with the most attractive person who responds. Perform oral sex on them.3) While doing so, choose to be aroused by the experience.4) Come back here, and tell us how incredibly easy it was to choose to be gay.

It's not. Have you tried the handy-dandy test I laid out in post 65?Should answer your questions pretty quickly.

Why not?If one can choose to be gay, you'll love it, no matter what your feelings on the subject are right now.Edited by Dan Carroll, : for further clarification

So you can't choose to enjoy sex with another man? (Or another woman, if you happen to be female.)If homosexuality is a choice, it shouldn't matter whether or not you want to. You'll choose to want to.

I can't say what everyone on the planet is capable of doing. But if a person such as you or Hoot Mon is incapable of choosing your sexuality, then it seems a bit silly for either of you to insist that it's what others are doing.

You have been given a very simple way of answering this. Repeating the question doesn't mean the answer isn't staring you in the face.Heck, because I'm such a nice guy, I'll go ahead and give you another possible test, that won't even involve touching another guy.1) Rent a gay porn movie.2) Watch it.3) Choose to get an erection.

The act of separation degrades the person being separated. This is why, even if black people had their own water fountain not 20 feet away, the arrangement was still not equal... even if their water fountain is every bit as good as the whites-only one. Implicit in the act of separation is the statement, "you are not good enough to use our water fountain."Same thing here. Even if civil unions give every single right that marriage gives, the very fact that it's a separate institution makes it unequal.

Go back and read the two paragraphs or so you cut off, there.The whole "I'm just askin' questions" angle drops a notch in credibility when you ignore the answers.Speaking of which, have you rented that porn yet? Were you able to choose to let it get you hot?

The beautiful thing about arguing with people who say that homosexuality is a choice, is that you get to do both.You can't choose to be something other than straight. So why would you assume that there are not gay people out there who can't choose to be something other than gay?Edited by Dan Carroll, : clarity avoids semantic nonsense

*shrugs*Give it a whirl, then get back to us. Yeah, people love getting raped.Also, if you get raped by a dude? You catch the gay. They could be bi. They could be gay. They could be straight.See, that's the thing... I'm not in your friend's head. It would be astonishingly fucking presumptuous of me to try and say that I know what his sexuality really is, and whether or not it was a choice for him. Don't recall doing so. In fact, I already pointed out that I can't say what every single person on the planet is or is not capable of doing. But when it comes down to it, there are demonstrably people on this planet who are not capable of choosing their sexuality.So trying to say that homosexuality is a choice is asinine.

Yeah, Crash already went over that with him.But... y'know. He waited a couple days, and then repeated himself. So it's a real smart idea now.

Agreed all around. Only one thing prompts me to respond... True. However, I think behavior is kind of irrelevant when it comes to this topic. Someone doesn't stop being gay, even if they never have sex. Just as a celibate straight person doesn't stop being straight.