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Author Topic:   Mutations
Peter
Member (Idle past 1506 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 4 of 18 (8772)
04-22-2002 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by quicksink
04-08-2002 6:45 AM


quote:
Originally posted by quicksink:
Is a sufficient number of mutations accumulated over time to create the mind-blowing diveristiy and complexity of today?
Could random and rare mutations create the following:
a second stomach in a cow
echolocation
limbs from fins
fully functional lungs
brains from single-celled organisms
vertebrates
venus fly traps
wings
feathers (the perfect design of feathers would have to come immediately- crude feathers would cause the death of the animal and the loss of the mutation)
nervous systems (these would also have to come about in one massive and miraculous mutation- half a nervous system is not good)
senses for detecting the magnetic field of the planet (again, half a sense is no good- we're not talking about quantum leaps and enormous mutations that somehow work perfectly and create fully functional senses, limbs, organs, etc.)
flowers that attract pollenators and attach "pollen packs" to the pollenator (again, some systems, like that of the orchid, are extremely complex- half a pollenation system would cause the extinction of the specie)
mosquitos and chemicals that numb surrounding skin (mosquitos that were unable to numb the pain caused by their bite would become quickly extinct- what mutation could bring around a random mechanism that would just happen to produce a chemical that would just happen to numb an organisms skin.
fingernails
etc.
Please don't tell me that these questions needn't an answer because evolution occurred, no matter how you turn it. Occam's razor states that a theory that cannot produce sufficient answers for all questions is most likely incorrect. If evolution can only carry half its weight, then less likely and less possible theories must be condsidered, in the case that they are the only solutions.

Just to pick on one .... why would crude feathers cause the death
of the individual ?
Feathers probably originated before flight, and developed
over time into the feathers that enable flight in modern birds.
There are suggestions that some dinosaurs had rudimentary
feathers (do a search like +feathers +scales in yahoo), and
then there are legends of Quetzocoatl the feathered serpent, which
may have a basis in fact long ago.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by quicksink, posted 04-08-2002 6:45 AM quicksink has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Quetzal, posted 04-22-2002 12:01 PM Peter has replied

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1506 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 17 of 18 (9636)
05-14-2002 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Quetzal
04-22-2002 12:01 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Quetzal:
Just one quibble 'cause I'm actually an evil pedant in disguise. Most archeologists studying Mesoamerican cultures think that the form for Quetzalcoatl was inspired by my pseudonym-sake: the Central American Quetzal (Pharomacchrus mocinno). It is known that many of the really fancy Aztec headdresses were composed primarily of quetzal feathers (why not? the birds have a 2 meter tail!). They (the birds) were considered royalty (or at least reserved for royalty) by the Maya, among others. When it flies, it undulates very like a snake with wings - just like the representative drawings of Quetzalcoatl.
Didn't know that!!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Quetzal, posted 04-22-2002 12:01 PM Quetzal has not replied

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1506 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 18 of 18 (9637)
05-14-2002 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by ksc
05-05-2002 10:22 AM


quote:
Originally posted by ksc:


ksc:Whether natural selection is or isn’t is debateable. What you have forgotten is that the mutations that you claim are naturally selected are RANDOM



Mutations in sexually re-producing organisms MUST occur in
the gametes. You cannot have a mutation that effects an already
existing organism, only a mutation which is created by a modification
to the DNA in the sex cells.
Males tend to produce millions of gametes on a very regular basis.
Gametes that have 'bad' mutations are likely incapable of
causing fertilisation.
If an organism produces 10 million gametes, and 1% of those carry
mutations which are potentially beneficial, that would mean
100,000 mutant gametes ... and so potential for offspring
carrying mutations.
It is also possible that 'bad' mutations have beneficial side-effects
in co-dominant situations (like sickle cell aenemia).
Mutations are NOT that rare ... I found a news article of research
that suggests there are up to four copy errors everytime a cell
divides (or some astronomical figure like that ... I'll try
to find the article again).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by ksc, posted 05-05-2002 10:22 AM ksc has not replied

  
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