EvC Forum: Viagra & Evolution

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Topic: Viagra & Evolution

Huntard

Member (Idle past 2321 days)

Posts: 2870

From: Limburg, The Netherlands

Joined: 09-02-2008

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Message 5 of 55 (490245)
12-03-2008 8:42 AM

Reply to: Message 1 by Peg
12-03-2008 5:33 AM

I'll give the same answer here as I did in the viagra spam mail thread.

Peg writes:

If evolution is the propagation of the species by survival of the fittest and natural selection
how are erectile problems to be explained?

there are many couples who need ivf treatment to conceive these days, men are becoming impotent, sterility issues... how does evolutionary science explain this phenomenon???

I don't see how this is a problem for evolution. If these individuals can't reproduce, there gense will simply dissapear from the species. Where's the problem here?

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	Message 1 by Peg, posted 12-03-2008 5:33 AM		Peg has not replied

Huntard

Member (Idle past 2321 days)

Posts: 2870

From: Limburg, The Netherlands

Joined: 09-02-2008

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Message 12 of 55 (490379)
12-04-2008 5:13 AM

Reply to: Message 10 by Peg
12-04-2008 4:56 AM

Re: Evolution by Personal Selection

Peg writes:

interesting conclusion bluejay

i dont really know much about biological evolution so i'll have to read up on it

Are you saying that biological evolution doesnt happen anymore, or just that there are too many factors that can cause similar effects??

No. What he is saying is that humans, through our technology, are no longer subjet to the driving force of evolution, natural selection.

And yes, read up on evolution, but please, don't go to creationist websites, go to scientific ones.

I hunt for the truth

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	Message 13 by Percy, posted 12-04-2008 7:36 AM		Huntard has not replied

Huntard

Member (Idle past 2321 days)

Posts: 2870

From: Limburg, The Netherlands

Joined: 09-02-2008

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Message 38 of 55 (490673)
12-07-2008 4:35 AM

Reply to: Message 37 by fallacycop
12-07-2008 3:20 AM

Re: Evolution by Personal Selection

I'd say people with down syndrome, and people born with severe disabilities.

Now, I'm not saying I don't WANT these people to live, I'm saying that if we didn't have intelligence, such individuals would have a much lesser chance to survive to reproductive age.

I hunt for the truth

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	Message 37 by fallacycop, posted 12-07-2008 3:20 AM		fallacycop has replied

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	Message 39 by fallacycop, posted 12-07-2008 11:12 AM	Huntard has not replied
	Message 41 by Taz, posted 12-07-2008 2:45 PM	Huntard has replied

Huntard

Member (Idle past 2321 days)

Posts: 2870

From: Limburg, The Netherlands

Joined: 09-02-2008

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Message 42 of 55 (490718)
12-07-2008 3:10 PM

Reply to: Message 41 by Taz
12-07-2008 2:45 PM

Re: Evolution by Personal Selection

Taz writes:

Fit or not depends on environmental factors. This includes the care they receive from the society they live in. Some of them DO reproduce, so apparently they are fit enough to survive and reproduce.

Well, if you see everything humans do as natural, then of course, yes, you are right. I don't, so I guess we'll just have to differ in opinion here, as there really isn't an argument that will convince either and this basically come down to semantics then.

That said (and you have my permission to call me heartless), I don't want them to reproduce.

I'm not going to call you Heartless, for I see it in the exact same way.

I hunt for the truth

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	Message 41 by Taz, posted 12-07-2008 2:45 PM		Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 43 by Taz, posted 12-07-2008 3:18 PM	Huntard has not replied
	Message 44 by RAZD, posted 12-07-2008 3:41 PM	Huntard has not replied
	Message 50 by fallacycop, posted 12-08-2008 4:49 PM	Huntard has not replied

Huntard

Member (Idle past 2321 days)

Posts: 2870

From: Limburg, The Netherlands

Joined: 09-02-2008

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Message 46 of 55 (490722)
12-07-2008 5:33 PM

Reply to: Message 45 by subbie
12-07-2008 5:06 PM

Re: A dangerous path....

subbie writes:

Let's have a bit of fun, and see if we can give the cdesign proponentists a little ammunition. (Seems to be the least we can do since they give themselves so little to work with.)

I'm assuming the reason that you don't want them to reproduce is because they reduce the overall fitness of the species and are, on the whole, a drain on resources.

What steps, if any, would you be willing to accept for society to discourage them reproducing? I have my own conclusion to this question, fairly firmly held, that I'll share. But I'm curious to hear what you (or anyone else) has to say on the matter.

I don't want them to reproduce, because the chance their offspring will also be disabled is too large. Yes, they can still be perfectly happy with this, but I don't want ANY human to go through that, I just don't think it is a good life to lead. Perhaps I am now speaking from my own perspective, that of a perfectly healthy human, but I certainly wouldn't want to live like that. Although the argument that they lessen the overall fitness would be on a second place for me.

About the steps I'm a bit in a bind, on one hand, I care very much for personal freedom, on the other, the reasons listed above are a strong pull for me to do something about it. I'm not entirely sure I would advocate sterilization of the disabled, there is still some doubt in me about that.

Edited by Huntard, : Forgot the steps part.

I hunt for the truth

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