Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,838 Year: 4,095/9,624 Month: 966/974 Week: 293/286 Day: 14/40 Hour: 3/2


EvC Forum ⇒ Science Forums ⇒ Biological Evolution ⇒

Ring Species!!

Thread ▼ Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Ring Species!!
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 762 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002

Normal Thread Display
Message 17 of 50 (503488)
03-19-2009 2:01 PM 		Reply to: Message 10 by harry
03-16-2009 10:44 PM

Re: Ring species examples
Does anyone know if they migrate though?
​
Yes, the northern ones, at least, do - to southern Asia, according to one clause on Irwin's page. And that, of course, has me wondering if northern and southern species winter together or not....
​
Aha!:
More northerly populations uniformly migrate greater distances
to their wintering grounds and spend less time on the
breeding grounds. Populations in western Siberia and Europe
(viridanus) migrate to southern India through central Asia
(Ticehurst 1938; Cramp 1992). Eastern Siberian populations
(plumbeitarsus) migrate to Indochina through eastern China
(Ticehurst 1938; Williamson 1962). All of these northern
populations spend three to four months (late May to August
or September) on the breeding grounds (Dementev and Gladkov
1968). Himalayan populations (trochiloides) migrate
shorter distances and appear to spend more time (April to
October) on or near the breeding grounds (Williamson 1962;
Martens and Eck 1995).
http://www.zoology.ubc.ca/~irwin/PDFs/Irwin2000.pdf
One would need that Williamson monograph to get my answer, I suppose.
​
Edited by Coragyps, : add info
​
Edited by Coragyps, : add link, too
This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by harry, posted 03-16-2009 10:44 PM harry has not replied
  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 762 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002

Normal Thread Display
Message 22 of 50 (503748)
03-21-2009 7:25 PM

Where you draw the line is up to you. The term "Species" has multiple meanings.
​
I know. One of the best, biologically, is the one about interbreeding populations. Can you offer a speculation, Sky, as to why those eastern and western Siberian greenish warblers don't interbreed?
​
I doubt you be able to show that even ONE of these highly respected scientists were not believers in Supernatural Intelligent Design.
​
And I doubt that I give a crap. Did Mendel invoke God in his reporting on wrinkled/smooth ratios? Yellow/green ratios? I don't seem to remember him doing so.
  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 762 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002

Normal Thread Display
Message 24 of 50 (503760)
03-21-2009 9:58 PM 		Reply to: Message 23 by Sky-Writing
03-21-2009 9:39 PM

Re: Tools
True, but that's due to their religious upbringing, not increased education.
​
Hmm. And here I'm a highly educated atheist that was raised a China missionary brat......
​
I still want to know why those Siberian greenish warblers don't interbreed, Sky.
​
"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD
This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Sky-Writing, posted 03-21-2009 9:39 PM Sky-Writing has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Sky-Writing, posted 03-21-2009 10:11 PM Coragyps has replied
 Message 27 by Sky-Writing, posted 03-21-2009 10:19 PM Coragyps has replied
  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 762 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002

Normal Thread Display
Message 28 of 50 (503764)
03-21-2009 10:20 PM 		Reply to: Message 26 by Sky-Writing
03-21-2009 10:11 PM

Re: Tools
Open a topic on this and we can discuss it there. That would be interesting.
​
Edited by Coragyps, : missed non-reply on warblers....
This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Sky-Writing, posted 03-21-2009 10:11 PM Sky-Writing has not replied
  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 762 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002

Normal Thread Display
Message 29 of 50 (503765)
03-21-2009 10:25 PM 		Reply to: Message 27 by Sky-Writing
03-21-2009 10:19 PM

Re: Tools
It could be any number of factors that would change whether a bird needed to be aggressive or passive. had an easy life or hard...
​
Let's see.....they're almost the same size, look very much alike, eat the same things in the same forests, have the same natural enemies....
what else do you suggest? The links to studies are upthread.
​
"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD
This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Sky-Writing, posted 03-21-2009 10:19 PM Sky-Writing has not replied
  
Date format: mm-dd-yyyy
Timezone: ET (US)
  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024