Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 86 (8945 total)
472 online now:
PaulK (1 member, 471 visitors)
Newest Member: ski zawaski
Upcoming Birthdays: ONESOlivia, perfect
Post Volume: Total: 865,443 Year: 20,479/19,786 Month: 876/2,023 Week: 384/392 Day: 0/74 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Is evolution of mammals finished?
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5858
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 17 of 213 (384073)
02-09-2007 10:42 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by MartinV
02-08-2007 4:50 PM


Evolutions precipice
So I see Broom's observation that "evolutionary clock has so completely run down" as the well supported claim nowadays too. Interpretation of the fact that no new mammalian Order aroused during huge time period from Eocene and that mammalian diversity generally seems to be fading instead suggests some "predetermined internal factors" behind evolution and no RM and NS as darwinists suppose.

I am in no way in favor of evolution, however, strictly from a hypothetical point of view, if evolution is true then there would be virtually a near limitless abundance of genetic variability.

I think the problem with evolution is not that it will hit a wall, but that it never had the chance to climb over the wall to begin with... so to speak.

I believe there is a limit on the speed of beneficial evolution that hits a wall, which thus, would render evolution on a macro scale impossible. In other words, there is a cost substitution problem associated with the possible variables of allelic expression through genetic drift.

I wrote up a similar thread (Population Genetics) a few months back that perhaps you might appreciate.


"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by MartinV, posted 02-08-2007 4:50 PM MartinV has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by crashfrog, posted 02-10-2007 1:23 AM Hyroglyphx has responded
 Message 19 by RAZD, posted 02-10-2007 8:20 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5858
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 23 of 213 (384387)
02-11-2007 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by crashfrog
02-10-2007 1:23 AM


Re: Evolutions precipice
I'm sort of curious what you mean by "variability." Like, what is it, and how would we measure it?

Hmmmm? I don't know if you can really quantify variability in linear terms, because with every passing generation, there is always going to be some shuffling of extant genes, some mutations along the way, and so on. And since almost every organism is unique in some capacity, there is always some variability.

Do you consider it a property of individuals or of species or populations?

Well, it starts on the individual level, and we could have different expressions found in a peripheral population that finds itself isolated from the main populace. The question is whether enough favorable mutations x natural selection can support or account for the amount of diversity we currently see found on earth.

In a static population where the reproduction rate is slow (by slow, I mean they don't produce much progeny: i.e. humans) the ration of fixed genes would be 1:300 because of cost substitution. Organisms of "bad stock" or "low fitness" would prevail, even in spite of natural selection.

"Imagine a population of 100,000 of those organisms quietly evolving their way to humanity. For easy visualization, I'll have you imagine a scenario that favors rapid evolution. Imagine evolution happens like this. Every generation, one male and one female receive a beneficial mutation so advantageous that the 999,998 others die off immediately, and the population is then replenished in one generation by the surviving couple. Imagine evolution happens like this, generation after generation, for ten million years. How many beneficial mutations could be substituted at this crashing pace? One per generation -- or 500,000 nucleotides. That's 0.014 percent of the genome. (That is a minuscule fraction of the 2 to 3 percent that separates us from chimpanzees)." -Ted Holden

How then can we account for all of the diversity we find?


"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by crashfrog, posted 02-10-2007 1:23 AM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by crashfrog, posted 02-11-2007 11:51 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded
 Message 25 by PaulK, posted 02-11-2007 2:59 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded
 Message 27 by iceage, posted 02-16-2007 4:25 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019