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Author Topic:   Is evolution of mammals finished?
Alan Fox
Member (Idle past 269 days)
Posts: 32
From: France
Joined: 06-14-2006


Message 5 of 213 (383785)
02-09-2007 7:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by MartinV
02-08-2007 4:50 PM


Broom's Thesis
It is no way easy to find his antidarwinian thoughts on internet

Do you have no original reference for Broom where he sets out this anti-Darwinian hypothesis?


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 Message 1 by MartinV, posted 02-08-2007 4:50 PM MartinV has not yet responded

Alan Fox
Member (Idle past 269 days)
Posts: 32
From: France
Joined: 06-14-2006


Message 7 of 213 (383789)
02-09-2007 8:01 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by MartinV
02-08-2007 4:50 PM


Robert Broom
On googling Broom, he appears to have had a distinguished career as a paleontologist, and
In 1910 Broom's insistence on the theory of evolution cost him his position at the University of Stellenbosch, an extremely conservative religious institution

Also see some of Broom's publications. The suggestion that Broom was "anti-Darwinian" is not immediately obvious.


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Replies to this message:
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Alan Fox
Member (Idle past 269 days)
Posts: 32
From: France
Joined: 06-14-2006


Message 10 of 213 (383806)
02-09-2007 9:38 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Chiroptera
02-09-2007 8:31 AM


Re: Robert Broom
As Robert Broom died in 1951, thus being unavailable for comment, I suggest the onus is on those who claim Broom was "anti-Darwinian" to find some reference in his writings that supports that assertion. Does not the fact that such evidence is not apparent, make it equally possible that Broom accepted mainstream Darwinian evolution?

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Alan Fox
Member (Idle past 269 days)
Posts: 32
From: France
Joined: 06-14-2006


Message 14 of 213 (383947)
02-09-2007 3:50 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Chiroptera
02-09-2007 9:56 AM


Re: Robert Broom
Without actual evidence, it is hard to say what Broom believed.

Which is exactly the point I was making.


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Alan Fox
Member (Idle past 269 days)
Posts: 32
From: France
Joined: 06-14-2006


Message 81 of 213 (386852)
02-24-2007 7:11 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by MartinV
02-24-2007 2:45 AM


Re: So, back to mammalian evolution
MartinV writes:

According Robert Broom no new mammalian Order appeared in the past 30 million years and no new Genus appeared in the past two million years.

Do you have a reference for these remarks by Broom?

Others have already pointed out that Orders and Genera are taxonomical classification terms which are convenient but arbitrary.


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Alan Fox
Member (Idle past 269 days)
Posts: 32
From: France
Joined: 06-14-2006


Message 150 of 213 (391263)
03-24-2007 6:08 AM
Reply to: Message 149 by MartinV
03-22-2007 4:34 PM


Re: Colors (var. fancy)
Just curious*
quote:
Mushrooms are no evasion.

What has the colour of fungal fruiting bodies have to do with whether Robert Broom believed and/or was right to believe that evolution of mammals is finished?

Also,

I am getting the feeling that you think evolution's "goal" was to create humankind in the image of god. I think there are theistic evolutionists that believe this, but this is a philosophical viewpoint that science does not address.

{*example of rhetorical question, MartinV}


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Alan Fox
Member (Idle past 269 days)
Posts: 32
From: France
Joined: 06-14-2006


Message 154 of 213 (391470)
03-25-2007 7:57 AM
Reply to: Message 151 by MartinV
03-24-2007 8:09 PM


Re: Colors (var. fancy)
quote:
You seem to be pretty nervous from mushroom coloration.

It seems reasonable that those poisonous fruiting bodies that were easier to identify as such would have more chance of spreading spores and thus over time the genes for "warning colour" would dominate in the particular species. It also seems reasonable that species with palatable fruiting bodies could be colour selected, as those with mutations causing similar colours to genuinely poisonous ones are likely to be avoided by predators using visual clues.

quote:
You are right that topic is animal evolution.

Are you still claiming that Davison's front-loading hypothesis and that "the environment had nothing to do with it" etc. is a better explanation than modern evolutionary theory?

quote:
Zebras and swans coloration is another topic. My point is that coloration in 99% of animals has no selective advantage/disadvantage.

Selection has costs and benefits. Pigment production has a cost element. Organisms that have become adapted to a cave environment lack pigmentation, and thus save the energy in making it.

quote:
Mushrooms are very good example that can be perhaps extrapolated to mammalian kingdom very well. Palatable, unpalatable and poisonous mushrooms are very colorful. Without any neodarwinistic explanation as far as I know - we should check such explanation much more easier btw. It's not so easy I suppose to use darwinistic dialectic wit here as it is in the case of mammalian coloration that nobody can verify.

See my hypothesis above.


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