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Author Topic:   Evolution of Eyes
Equinox
Member (Idle past 5169 days)
Posts: 329
From: Michigan
Joined: 08-18-2006


Message 16 of 52 (459961)
03-11-2008 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Lyston
03-08-2008 4:53 PM


Understanding eye evolution is easy. Begin with a small change, then add changes, each giving an advantage, until what you have can be called a “new organ”.
First, start with regular temperature sensitive nerve cells (we can evolve their presence in steps too if you like). Now, a mutation causes them to fire when exposed to light instead of heat - not hard since light produces heat anyway. Now there are a clump of light sensitive cells, which are advantageous because sensing light is better than not sensing it - this may allow the little creature to hide under a rock, etc. Now a mutation causes that clump to be depressed in the skin - thus protecting it. Similarly, you can see that the opposite mutation - causing it to bulge up, would be selected against, so the “depressed in” mutation survives. Now the cup with light sensitive cells can sense light direction too! Mutations that cause a transparent cover of cells, and later thicken this layer to make a lens, or add muscles that allow the eye to move are all accumulations of small steps, each being advantageous, up to the eye you possess.
I'm curious about the transition between "c" and "d" on that.
That's understandable. Let's look at it closely. Say a mutation causes a thin layer of clear skin to cover the eye (outer, thin layers of skin are often clear). That has the advantage of protecting the eye, an so seems clear that it would be selected for. That would automatically fill the middle with a fluid due to normal growth (embryos grow in fluid, not in air). Is that what you were unclear on, or is there some other step in the useful image on post #9 that is still a little foggy?
Eye evolution was recognized as easy even 150 years ago - Darwin described the process in post #9, long before we found living transitional forms of so may intermediate steps.
Have a good day-
Equinox

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Lyston, posted 03-08-2008 4:53 PM Lyston has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Lyston, posted 03-11-2008 7:51 PM Equinox has replied
 Message 42 by TheWay, posted 03-27-2008 5:48 PM Equinox has not replied

  
Equinox
Member (Idle past 5169 days)
Posts: 329
From: Michigan
Joined: 08-18-2006


Message 31 of 52 (460026)
03-12-2008 7:06 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Lyston
03-11-2008 7:51 PM


Which Bodily Secretion?
Lyston wrote:
How would the fluid start to secrete? You said it would start automatically due to normal growth. Are you saying that it would be something like trapped embryo fluid or something like that inside? Or are you saying that something will secrete the fluid into the space?
Rahvin gave a plausible answer, but like you, I was seeing trapped (something like) amniotic fluid inside. Before hatching or whatever, the whole organism is in some fluid, and so that cavity wouldn't somehow be air filled to start with.
During growth, I'd expect that fluid to be changed as circulation took out some things and put other things in. Rahvin's "filling" method works too, but I'd guess that our (Lyston & I's) embryonic method is more likely.
Of course, fluids (and their chemical composition) fossilize even worse than soft eyes, so there's little fossil evidence. However, there probably are extant animals with eyes like d, does anyone know how their eye fluid progresses over thier lives?
I guess any of multiple routes would work, but I at least don't know which one happened in each eye lineage. Could be (probably is) that different routes are what happened in say, vertebrate eyes, vs. cephalopod eyes, etc.
Have a fun day-
Equinox

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Lyston, posted 03-11-2008 7:51 PM Lyston has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by molbiogirl, posted 03-12-2008 12:46 PM Equinox has not replied

  
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