Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,870 Year: 4,127/9,624 Month: 998/974 Week: 325/286 Day: 46/40 Hour: 1/4


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Rapid Evolution in Lizards
Dr T
Junior Member (Idle past 5841 days)
Posts: 3
Joined: 04-26-2008


Message 40 of 57 (464540)
04-26-2008 11:18 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by molbiogirl
04-24-2008 7:35 PM


This is my 1st post and my 1st time participating in any forum like this (internet chat). I like what I've read thus far and the creation Vs evolution format.
Amazing the discovery of an ileocecal valve in a carnivorous lizzard! What about the the required changes to the upper digestive system. What about new enzymes. What about the required changes to the pancreas. All this in some 30 odd years. How do we know these adaptations didn't occur in 20 years or 10 years or 5 years. Wow! Now That would be some amazing evolution.
What this looks like is the stimulation of recessive survival traits (at first glance). To leap to the conclusion that there was new genetic data added at this early stage is unfounded and unreasonable.
Sincerely Dr T
Edited by Dr T, : Typing errors

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by molbiogirl, posted 04-24-2008 7:35 PM molbiogirl has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by molbiogirl, posted 04-27-2008 12:27 AM Dr T has not replied

  
Dr T
Junior Member (Idle past 5841 days)
Posts: 3
Joined: 04-26-2008


Message 42 of 57 (464544)
04-27-2008 12:53 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by molbiogirl
04-24-2008 7:35 PM


NO need to get excited. You asserted earlier in the discussion that genetic testing was necessary to prove genetic change. Inherant in that assertion is that an unfounded or at least premature assumption has been made. Re; The species not showing the colonic separation ever before, it was stated that this species was almost entirely on an insect diet, therefore there would not be the environmental stimulous for a phenotype change.
The change in the skull structure is likely the result of the observed increased strength of the muscles of mastication(wolf's law muscular stress on bone causes bone to hypertrophy).
Take this lizard and put it back on its insect diet and monitor its physiology annually. After 5 years take another look at its digestive tract. If the intestinal separation is still there then shout evolution. I would venture that it will not be therein the same specimens. Sounds like a testable hypothesis to me!
Edited by Dr T, : I did not address molbiogirl's question to support the reasoning for my statement.
Edited by Dr T, : No reason given.
Edited by Dr T, : Punctuation point delineation

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by molbiogirl, posted 04-24-2008 7:35 PM molbiogirl has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by molbiogirl, posted 04-27-2008 1:52 AM Dr T has replied

  
Dr T
Junior Member (Idle past 5841 days)
Posts: 3
Joined: 04-26-2008


Message 44 of 57 (464638)
04-27-2008 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by molbiogirl
04-27-2008 1:52 AM


“Evolution does not require genomic change. It can, and does, happen that way -- but it is not required. “
What!!! Is this some new (ignoring the laws of genetics) evolution science? Please explain to me and everyone else paying attention how (the mechanism) you get multiple generations without a gene to carry the information .
"Your ideas are LaMarckian.
LaMarckism was discarded over 130 years ago."
Sounds like name calling? I just wish I knew what this has to do with what we’re talking about!! Not really, It seems like investigating what this fellow thought is an attempt to distract, deride and catagorize my point of view (a prejudicial statement).
"You are under the mistaken impression that this is "a tiny little change".
Growing an entirely new digestive organ is not such a little thing, dear sir."
Well thank you for the dear sir, that almost sounds like respect, almost but not quite. I am under the impression that there is no change in the genome of this lizard and that this animal has always had an ileum and a cecum, and the ability to digest vegetation, if it would eat such food. I think (as stated in the referenced research article) that this species prior to isolation on this island had a diet rich in insects and limited in vegetation and that its digestive system having no need to segregate its meals for extended digestive processes had an ileocecal region celularly differentiated
but completely patent. This valve is a muscular organ and as is the case with all muscles if there is no stimulous to the muscle you have disuse atrophy. Hence no muscular fold you get a smooth transition from ilium to cecum and the appearance that no ileocecal valve exists ( and by the assumption of the investigators no plans in this lizards genome to make one ). The same type of thing happened in this lizards jaw and skull, I purport, that it used its jaw more and the muscles got bigger therefore requiring the stronger bigger bones.
Pseudo scientists call parts of anatomy that they do not know the function of useless vestigial organs, I think that tag, minus the useless, would apply however in this case.
"The fact remains, however, that this lizard grew a whole new body part."
Not a fact yet! Gosh, there is a lot of confusion on your side of the fence regarding what is fact and what is theory!
"This is not something one can simply brush off as an "adaptation".
No other member of this lizard's GENUS has a cecal valve."
Maybe someone should look a little harder and deeper in this lizards genus, I think they'll find one.
We’ll see, you just watch, sometime in the not to distant future there will be a follow up article on this lizard on page 62 of the paper in the bottom left corner retracting this ridiculous claim. Thats how it always is with these evolution scientist's earth shattering discoveries; Nebraska man and his cute family of four-from an extinct pigs tooth, piltdown man-man's and ape's skull and jaw hoax, lucy's bones found hundreds of feet apart and in different strattum, neandertal man now known to be completely human, coelacanth a 70 million year old fish that walked out of the water thought to be a missing link between fish and amphibians found in Madagascar fish markets and swimming at great depths in the Indian Ocean. The list goes on!
I've tried to catch the spelling errors so you won't be distracted.
If I've Missed any forgive me, wait forgiving is my side of the fence yours is crushing the weak and destroying those unfit to procreate.
Never mind.
Sincerely Dr T

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by molbiogirl, posted 04-27-2008 1:52 AM molbiogirl has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-27-2008 6:49 PM Dr T has not replied
 Message 46 by molbiogirl, posted 04-27-2008 7:29 PM Dr T has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024