The Definition for the Theory of Evolution

Murkywaters's definition is incorrect based on things that it includes that are not necessary to the ToE as well as what he doesn't include.He gives no description whatsoever of how the various organisms arose from a single common ancestor. RAZD's definition, however, at least explains something about how the process occurred, "the change in frequency of alleles in popluations."Murky's definition includes two elements that are not necessary components of or conditions for the ToE; a common ancestor, and an inorganic beginning.I'm not aware of anything in the ToE that rules out the possibility of more than one instance of life arising. Nor am I aware of anything the the ToE that rules out the possiblity of an extra terrestrial origin for the "seeds of life" which then grew and florished on this planet. While I do not believe that either of these ideas are commonly accepted as the most probable explanations, if evidence of either them were found, the ToE would be able to accomodate that evidence without any significant changes.The only nit that I would pick with RAZD's definition is that it does not clearly lay out the process by which descent with modification takes place. As stated, it could encompass either Darwinian or Lamarkian change.

---

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

I would say that's a description, not a definition. Here's my shot at it.Populations change over time, mostly due to selective pressures to which the populations are subject, which enable those offspring better adapted to the environment to reproduce at a higher rate than those which are not. This change occurs because those organisms that are better adapted tend to pass on more of their genetic make up to the next generation.

---

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

Well, let's see if we can't hone in on the guts of the topic without getting bogged down in semantics.It seems to me that any definition or description of the ToE should be comprehensive enough to rule out alternative theories about how descent with modification may occur. In addition, it should not include things that are not part of the theory that someone might try to graft onto it in an effort to undermine it.

---

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

I think that's incomplete without including that some changes confer survival advantages on some organisms because of environmental pressures and that those organisms better adapted tend to prosper at the expense of those less well-adapted.

---

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

Yes, you're quite right.My bad.

---

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

I would give infintely more weight to a definition provided by those who are actually doing scientific work in the ToE than one provided by a non-scientist whose only interest in the field is to promote a political agenda, and whose understanding of the field, if any, is warped by that agenda.

---

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

Before I accept that label from you, I'd want to know how you define a "Darwinist." You and the mouse in your pocket? My point is that anything that Phillip Johnson says about the ToE is undermined by his motive.

---

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

Well, I can't hold that against him, since I am too.

---

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

My motive is to find the truth, or get as close to it as we can within the limits of our abilities. Please explain how that motive undermines anything I say.

---

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

Johnson may claim to find and promote the truth, but his writings belie that claim.For example, in the Wedge, Johnson quite clearly laid out a political agenda to promote a philosophy that he had adopted in advance of sufficient evidence to support it. This document demonstrates that Johnson's motive is not in fact to find the truth, but to build a political movement calculated persude the public, opinion-makers and policy-makers that his religious beliefs have scientific value.

---

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat