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Author Topic:   The Definition for the Theory of Evolution
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4230 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 196 of 216 (417258)
08-20-2007 1:13 AM
Reply to: Message 194 by Dr Adequate
08-20-2007 12:49 AM


Re: I got it!
Dr. A:
Yeah, facts. What do they prove, eh?

Exactly what I said in the other thread...

That as far as we know, our logical inferences are valid when the two (internal coherence + external coherence + their matched agreement = emperical). Any belief to the contrary is strictly unemperical.

Edited by Rob, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-20-2007 12:49 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 200 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-20-2007 2:06 AM Rob has responded

Ihategod
Member (Idle past 4411 days)
Posts: 235
Joined: 08-15-2007


Message 197 of 216 (417273)
08-20-2007 1:48 AM
Reply to: Message 192 by Dr Adequate
08-20-2007 12:46 AM


Re: I got it!
I't a fair supposition. No-one's come up with a good creationist argument in the last 150 years, so I'd be willing to bet that it's not going to happen here, now, coming from someone totally unfamiliar with the scientific literature.

I almost forget how good HOE's (hypothesis of evolutioners) are at assuming things. That kind of faith could be put to good use. ;p

Why is it always the opposition that doesn't understand? If I really wanted to immerse myself in scientific literature I'd watch certain porn. Because nothing screams ridiculous like midgets and absurd obesity.

Anywise, I used my superior techniques of speed reading (of which you are completely ignorant and stupefied) to skim the all of the articles. I had read them a few times prior to enlisting to EvC so I am aware of "evidences" for macro evolution. Which I think is a bunch of fairy tales and that's how I would paraphrase it to someone who hadn't read it.

Here's a good creationist argument, your stupid. Oh wait,... that's already taken by you.
AND FOR THE LAST TIME READ THE RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WE ARE WAY OFF TOPIC!!! MOLBIOCHIK! WE NEED HELP!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-20-2007 12:46 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 199 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-20-2007 2:01 AM Ihategod has responded
 Message 204 by AdminNosy, posted 08-20-2007 3:40 AM Ihategod has not yet responded

Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16107
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 198 of 216 (417275)
08-20-2007 1:56 AM
Reply to: Message 195 by Rob
08-20-2007 1:08 AM


Re: I got it!
By the way, the foundations of biology are philsophical.

Nope.

So, even if he does bring the stone down and it crushes you (when you could have cast yourself upon it and willingly been broken); you will be oblivious, because you are not thinking at his level.

You will simply be tormented forever by your lack of understanding and demise. It will never make sense to you, because you will not let it make sense. It would cost you your most treasured posession; your sin.

Are you taking some sort of drug?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by Rob, posted 08-20-2007 1:08 AM Rob has not yet responded

Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16107
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 199 of 216 (417279)
08-20-2007 2:01 AM
Reply to: Message 197 by Ihategod
08-20-2007 1:48 AM


Re: I got it!
I almost forget how good HOE's (hypothesis of evolutioners) are at assuming things. That kind of faith could be put to good use. ;p

Why is it always the opposition that doesn't understand? If I really wanted to immerse myself in scientific literature I'd watch certain porn. Because nothing screams ridiculous like midgets and absurd obesity.

Anywise, I used my superior techniques of speed reading (of which you are completely ignorant and stupefied) to skim the all of the articles. I had read them a few times prior to enlisting to EvC so I am aware of "evidences" for macro evolution. Which I think is a bunch of fairy tales and that's how I would paraphrase it to someone who hadn't read it.

Here's a good creationist argument, your stupid. Oh wait,... that's already taken by you.
AND FOR THE LAST TIME READ THE RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WE ARE WAY OFF TOPIC!!! MOLBIOCHIK! WE NEED HELP!

That was also ... very ... strange.

Are you familiar with the term "word salad"?

If you wanted to read scientific literature ... you'd watch porn instead?

When I want to read scientific literature, I read scientific literature. That's 'cos I'm sane, and when I want to do a thing, I do it, instead of doing something completely different. It's this little habit that we non-mad people have.

If you've gained all your opinions of science by watching porn --- well, I guess that explains why you know damn all about science. On the other hand, your knowledge of porn must be quite extensive.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by Ihategod, posted 08-20-2007 1:48 AM Ihategod has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 201 by Ihategod, posted 08-20-2007 2:10 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16107
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 200 of 216 (417280)
08-20-2007 2:06 AM
Reply to: Message 196 by Rob
08-20-2007 1:13 AM


Re: I got it!
Yeah, facts. What do they prove, eh?

Exactly what I said in the other thread...

You don't need my help to make a fool of yourself, you're doing fine on your own.

You maintain that facts don't prove anything?

Carry on.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by Rob, posted 08-20-2007 1:13 AM Rob has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 209 by Rob, posted 08-20-2007 9:35 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Ihategod
Member (Idle past 4411 days)
Posts: 235
Joined: 08-15-2007


Message 201 of 216 (417283)
08-20-2007 2:10 AM
Reply to: Message 199 by Dr Adequate
08-20-2007 2:01 AM


Re: I got it!
Do you have any idea of the physics involved in sex magic?
You clearly are ignorant of science. ME: 4.3 billion You: 0

This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-20-2007 2:01 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 203 by iceage, posted 08-20-2007 2:36 AM Ihategod has not yet responded
 Message 207 by Admin, posted 08-20-2007 8:14 AM Ihategod has not yet responded
 Message 210 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-20-2007 10:01 AM Ihategod has not yet responded

Parasomnium
Member (Idle past 1077 days)
Posts: 2191
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 202 of 216 (417289)
08-20-2007 2:28 AM
Reply to: Message 190 by Ihategod
08-20-2007 12:28 AM


Why is common descent shit?
Vashgun writes:

In layman's terms, common descent is shit. It's a religion, and should be left out of the definition of evolution.

Could you explain why you think this is so? What would your definition of evolution be?


"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.

Did you know that most of the time your computer is doing nothing? What if you could make it do something really useful? Like helping scientists understand diseases? Your computer could even be instrumental in finding a cure for HIV/AIDS. Wouldn't that be something? If you agree, then join World Community Grid now and download a simple, free tool that lets you and your computer do your share in helping humanity. After all, you are part of it, so why not take part in it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Ihategod, posted 08-20-2007 12:28 AM Ihategod has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 208 by Brad McFall, posted 08-20-2007 8:47 AM Parasomnium has not yet responded

iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4296 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 203 of 216 (417290)
08-20-2007 2:36 AM
Reply to: Message 201 by Ihategod
08-20-2007 2:10 AM


Re: I got it!
Hi Vashgun

I suspect you think you are clever but you are being ill-mannered, rude and immature.

Further you are attacking (stalking?) Mobiogirl calling her stupid and a HOE. Trying extracting yourself from the muck.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by Ihategod, posted 08-20-2007 2:10 AM Ihategod has not yet responded

AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 204 of 216 (417291)
08-20-2007 3:40 AM
Reply to: Message 197 by Ihategod
08-20-2007 1:48 AM


Another suspension for Vashgun
This time it is for 48 hours since it seems you couldn't read the forum guidelines in only 24 hours.

You seem to have some anger management problems too. You are rapidly wearing out your welcome here.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by Ihategod, posted 08-20-2007 1:48 AM Ihategod has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by RAZD, posted 08-20-2007 6:48 AM AdminNosy has not yet responded

RAZD
Member
Posts: 20460
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 205 of 216 (417301)
08-20-2007 6:48 AM
Reply to: Message 204 by AdminNosy
08-20-2007 3:40 AM


close for topic drift too?
Perhaps close the thread too. There hasn't been a post on topic for some time. I'm happy with the current status of the definition for the theory of evolution:

Message 158
(1) The modern theory of biological evolution is a synthesis of several validated theories on how species change over time.

(2) The modern theory of biological evolution is a synthesis of several validated theories on how species change over time; it includes theories on how change is enabled, and it includes theories on how changes made within each generation are selected.

(3) The modern theory of biological evolution is a synthesis of several validated theories on how species change over time; it includes theories on how change is enabled, due to the available variations (diversity) within populations from the formation and accumulation of different mutations in hereditary traits, and it includes theories on how changes made within each generation are selected, due to the differential response of organisms under prevailing ecological pressures to their individual development, their ability to pass on hereditary traits to the next generation, and their opportunities to disperse into other ecological habitats.

(4) The modern theory of biological evolution is a synthesis of several validated theories on how species change over time; it includes:

  • theories on how change is enabled
    ...(list of theories on different mechanisms for the formation and accumulation of different mutations in hereditary traits within populations)
  • theories on how changes made within each generation are selected
    ...(list of theories on different mechanisms of selection and where and when they operate)
    ... etc

Now it may be interesting to flesh out #4 with the lists of theories from natural selection to genetic drift to punk-eek to runaway sexual selection ... etc.

There hasn't been any real discussion of this since.

Thanks.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by AdminNosy, posted 08-20-2007 3:40 AM AdminNosy has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 206 by Parasomnium, posted 08-20-2007 7:31 AM RAZD has not yet responded

Parasomnium
Member (Idle past 1077 days)
Posts: 2191
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 206 of 216 (417305)
08-20-2007 7:31 AM
Reply to: Message 205 by RAZD
08-20-2007 6:48 AM


Re: close for topic drift too?
RAZD writes:

There hasn't been a post on topic for some time. [...] There hasn't been any real discussion of this since.

That's what I thought when I posted this Message 202. I was hoping to engage Vashgun in some honest, on-topic debate, to give him another chance.

I recommend that we at least wait until Vashgun's suspension is over, to see if he returns and is willing to reply.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by RAZD, posted 08-20-2007 6:48 AM RAZD has not yet responded

Admin
Director
Posts: 12655
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 207 of 216 (417312)
08-20-2007 8:14 AM
Reply to: Message 201 by Ihategod
08-20-2007 2:10 AM


Re: I got it!
Hi Vashgun,

We try to encourage discussion that focuses on the topic and not on the people we're discussing with. We don't require perfection in this regard, and there's a good analogy with traffic laws. Going up to 10 mph over the speed limit is fine on most roadways, but 20 mph and 30 mph over the speed limit will usually get you a ticket.

It's the same way here. Stay mostly within or near the Forum Guidelines most of the time and you'll do fine, but if you do the equivalent of running red lights and driving on the sidewalks your stay here will be short.

The next Forum Guidelines violation will bring permanent suspension.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by Ihategod, posted 08-20-2007 2:10 AM Ihategod has not yet responded

Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 3414 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 208 of 216 (417315)
08-20-2007 8:47 AM
Reply to: Message 202 by Parasomnium
08-20-2007 2:28 AM


Re: Why common descent is it.
Here (I am having some difficulty getting into my image hosting site, the picture is the second on the right and you must rotate it in your mind)
quote:
http://www.lboro.ac.uk/departments/ma/gallery/quat/index.html

is a possible alternative visualization of “common descent” or Gould’s use of the term, “cone of increasing diversity”.

http://www.peripatus.gen.nz/Paleontology/RepGou.html

What makes the possible use of 4-D fractals to refine the thought process of descent with modification is that one can take into account Hamilton’s observation

quote:
http://www.lboro.ac.uk/departments/ma/gallery/quat/intro.html

that real and imaginary numbers are not strictly arithemetically added, they are rather manipulated.

It remains to be seen if other 4-D fractals that may look like a cell (first picture on the page first linked above) instead may be combined in a common quaterionic equation (it was proposed that Mawell’s 8 equations could be viewed as a single quaterionic one in the 70s) that links levels of organization under (natural)selection.

If this applied math direction for constraining ones' thought on what common descent looks like, works, it would obviate useless banter about whether “the tree of life” is true or false (dendograms vs thmanograms etc) and this disparity in dispute would be replaced with issues about the relation of math and biology. This can incidentally open further placement for creationism if the evolutionists find it useful.

This 3-D "cone" is what I meant to depict with the BRANCHing image I hosted on my home page
http://aexion.org/default.aspx
and was idealized here
http://axiompanbiog.com/idplane.aspx

The next step is to show how the 4-D image rotated and concatenated can be used to illuminate Darwin's discussion of diversity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by Parasomnium, posted 08-20-2007 2:28 AM Parasomnium has not yet responded

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4230 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 209 of 216 (417322)
08-20-2007 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 200 by Dr Adequate
08-20-2007 2:06 AM


Re: I got it!
Dr. A:
You maintain that facts don't prove anything?

Exactly the opposite...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-20-2007 2:06 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 211 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-20-2007 10:04 AM Rob has responded

Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16107
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 210 of 216 (417328)
08-20-2007 10:01 AM
Reply to: Message 201 by Ihategod
08-20-2007 2:10 AM


Sex Magic?
Do you have any idea of the physics involved in sex magic?
You clearly are ignorant of science.

I am happy to report that I do indeed know nothing of this "sex magic" whereof you speak; and it is news to me that obscene dabblings in the occult constitute "science".

ME: 4.3 billion You: 0

Are we still talking about how much porn you've watched?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by Ihategod, posted 08-20-2007 2:10 AM Ihategod has not yet responded

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