Black Rednecks and White Liberals (by Thomas Sowell)

sort of true. geogrpahically, Florida is a part of the south. But I've never, ever heard of it being part of the "Deep South" or any other "southern" culture. Especially in reference to the antebellum south. See, Florida was purchased from Spain (or Mexico--I just can't seem to remember just when the US did acquire the territory, and depending on when it did happen, Mexico was either a colony or a separate country. My bet is spain, though). What the hell did it do during the Civil War? As far as I'm concerned, the south is Virginia, Tennessee, North and South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas, Louisiana, and Texas. Texas is a bit of an oddball.The reason Florida is not part of the "south" is culture--it is hispanic/spanish, and this is what makes Texas so wierd. The Deep South, the stereotypical image, is Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina. Maybe a few more. The south, especially this region, is anglican as far as cultural heritage is concerned.Rednecks, hillbillies, and mountain folk are the descendants of Scot-Irish men. People who moved from Scotland to Ireland, and then settled in the Appalachians. These are the people of West Virginia (antebellum south its part of Virginia), East Tennessee, and North Carolina. The mountainous areas of these states, that is. (oh, and these descendants are the reason we have so many old english ballads left over, but that's a different topic)There is a difference between the three, too (though I'm not postive mountain folk is an appropriate term). The rednecks are your crude, oftimes NASCAR fan, person. They also display a tendency to wave the confederate flag and can be unashamedly racist. Not positive if they were around in antebellum and reconstruction era south, though. The next group was. Hillbillies are about or less crude., but worse off. Think living in the hills of Carolina. They also had a tendency to live away from mountains--your poor farmer close to the plantation. The mountain people, while still just as dirt poor, considered themselves as different from the other inhabitants--you could call them the upper class of mountain society. Calling them a redneck or hillbilly would be considered an insult, and for good reason. they weren't.I, fortunately, did not grow up in Redneck central. I grew up in the middle of them all, but they, for the most part, lived outside of Bristol. I can't stand them, honestly.You say you grew up in Miami. Sorry, but that ain't the "south". And here's a real twist for you. Born in Denver I was (army hospital), but grew up in SW VA/ E TN. I consider myself a southern, and a proud Virginian.(and I hope to god Gilmore doesn't run for president--he's the one responsible for sending Virginia into its recent fiscal mess)(one last bit--if Sowell really did say that blacks had no one else to emulate other than rednecks, he doesn't know the south--'cause as crash said, it's more than rednecks down there. decent people live there, no matter their conservative bend)(one more last bit--if you really thought that the slave masters were rednecks, man are you wrong. The majority of all slaves were owned by upperclass plantation owners--Anglicans. Very few hillbillies, rednecks, or mountain people owned slaves--they were too expensive. The slave culture is also really interesting, and did not copy elements of redneck mannerisms and culture.)(one, absolutely last bit, unless I decide to edit--I'm fairly confident on what I've written here, but my history is beginning to get a little shoddy, especially in terms of culture zones, Florida, and tiny details. So it wouldn't surprise me if there was something quite wrong in here. Not likely, but not surprising)(damn it, one last one--thanks crash, for pointing out that not everyone who actually grew up in the south, and not in Miami, is a redneck. I am definetely not one (and I still can't spell that damn word--you know the one))

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if I was familiar with that show, I could answer the question.
once I look it up, I'll edit this post with a response. right now, though, is school.

you still need a refresher course, don't you.Here are some statistics as to who actually owned slaves, and how many they owned. (check for it on the third table in the page)from: Page not foundyour statement: "Yes, everyone owned slaves" is patently false.So who owned the majority of the slaves? The rich people--generally speaking, the "cultured" english (well, descendants). If anything, who would have had the most influence on thier behavior?This is assumming, of course, that the current behavior can be tracked down to influences from the slave era of US history. so I'm not a true southerner? I've lived there for about 14 years--the first 4 years of my life were in alaska, which I remember next to nothing about, and the last half year of my life in Colorado. And I might remind you, I am not a redneck or a hillbilly. Those are two separate classes of people.Are the people of Charleston rednecks? How about Richmond? Is Memphis a town of rednecks? Or what of Nashville? How about New Orleans? If you answer yes to any of these, than you've never met a redneck.Hillbillies are NOT just mountain folk. Remember what I said earlier--being called a redneck or hillbilly could be an insult to the true mountain people. These are the ones who stereotypically wear coon hats and have buckteeth. Rednecks are your NASCAR fans, and the mountain people are your upper class folk, even if they are as poor. There's a movie--about the rediscovery of the old english ballads in the Appalachains--that accurately portrays this last class.I consider Texas to be southern, but as I mentioned, they are odd. The people responsible for taking Texas from Mexico were mostly southerners. And they have a more southern feel than Florida does until you begin to get further west. Florida never had that advantage. After being in spanish hands for 300 years, they have a decidely hispanic/spanish feel, except for the northernmost parts of the state (I don't know if you'd consider Jacksonville north enough, but it has a feel somewhat like Charleston.)

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As to wealth distribution--the Southern aristrocrats--the big plantation owners, had plenty of money. Majority of wealth is not in the north during this era. If anything, its more of a split--remember, the economic power of the US at this time is agriculture--particularly in cotton (which was not the most extensively grown plant, btw). The North needed the South--w/o, no mercantile business. However, I will admit that by the time of the civil war, the south owed the north a lot of money, due to what was an increasingly uprofitable, and unsustainable practrice--slavery. ah, but didn't you just recently state that you only considered true southerners rednecks? I said that was the stereotypical image. That rednecks tend to be your average NASCAR fan, or at least, that's the image.Cold Mountain is about the Civil War--the movie I'm talking about takes place right around the Great Depression. I just can't remember the name of it.I personally don't think that the blacks picked up their behavior from any specific segment of the southern population. I think a lot of it has to do with the life they've been forced to live since slavery--when they were dirt poor. Also, blacks and whites really didn't communicate with eath other in the South--you have two whole separate societies. Here's an idea--read I Know why the Caged Bird Sings or Their Eyes Were Watching God for a decent picture of southern black culture during the 20th century. What you will find is not a culture influenced by mountain rednecks, hillbillies, and mountain folk. Rather, it is its own thing--a race of proud, unchanging people stuck in a horrendous economic situation, and dealing with it the best they can given the limitations forced on them. I'm not sure what they're influence is, but if any whites truly did influence them, it would be the aristocrats of the South, who owned the vast majority of them.The recent "bling-bling" trend doesn't really have a connection with their past cultural heritage. I'd say it's more a rebellion movement against the culture found in the two books I mentioned, sort of like the counter-culture of hippies was a rebellion movement. The recent trends in behavior I think, can also be accredited (i don't think that's the right word) to economic status, esp. as far as crime goes. Poor people tend to commit more crime, no matter the race. It just happens that more poor people are blacks stuck in inner-cities than whites or hispanics. It has squat to do with redneck culture or even slave era aristocrat culture. Sowell, and you, are drawing a false link to explain behavior.As to the fascination a lot of teens have with this bling-bling culture, I don't understand it myself, and I'm a teen. I always preferred classic rock (once I got into my teen years--before then, I preferred classical, and didn't listen to much of any music). Maybe they see the need to rebel with a new culture. I rebel with an older culture--and it doesn't really work, because it's my parents culture.

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I'm all for equal treatment. I'm against incorrect prognoses. Sowell is incorrect in his prognosis of what causes blacks to be further behind. defending that wrong position means you to make the same mistake.I really enjoy Bill Cosby--its true that the people who don't succeed are to lazy or they never had a chance to begin with. There are black people who make it. what's unfair, is that its much more difficult for them then it is for whites or other ethnic groups. in this element there is a racist basis, because if a black man who studied as much as I did, or knew as much, or was equally qualified, and I made it, but he didn't, why is that? race, and racism.let me remind you again--rednecks ain't responsible for blacks failure in this society. it is their racism, and other's racism, that is responsible. no matter how much you think its not here, racism is an isidious, subtle, creeping monster that inhabits every person on this earth. some are just more open about it then others.

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not only from the outside, at any rate. It wouldn't hurt if we actually treated them fairly, like we're supposed to (you know, part of being a good human, good american, (and for those who are) being a good christian).

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truly a shame. my school (in Bristol, VA, a small city (under 20,000)) still has tutoring. It's not the teachers that do it, though. however, most are willing to work with you to help you succeed. Or school system's budget? about 6 million. We have one high school (9-12, 650ish students), a middle school, and four or five elementary schools.maybe the difference between small and big cities?

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by the same logic, ABC must be conservative--it hosts the 700 Club, the anchorman being religious nut Pat Robertson (think that's the name. anyhow, dude who called for assassination of a South American pres. cause he was communist).oh, but wait, these stations put in "the views and opinions of this show are not necessarily that of the station". especially when a liberal station is hosting an extremely religious and conservative news show, and a conservative station (which Fox is) play the Simpsons and Family Guy.

this man, pres Lincoln, originally wanted to ship all the blacks out of the US. why did he end slavery? political reason. The South is busy trying to get Britain to officially enter the war, on the side of the South. Up to this point, the war has not been about ending slavery. In fact, it has been denied that that is a focus at the time. The war is solely about getting the CSA together with the USA.How can lincoln prevent the entrance of GB? simple. make it about slavery. we're ending slavery. a very popular idea with poor masses who can identify w/slavery in Europe. Now then, when do reveal this aim? At a great Union Victory. The Proclomation was written much earlier than when it was revealed. I want to say written in 1862, released in 1863 after Gettysburg. could be wrong on specific battle, though. At this point, the South needs Britain or it WILL lose. But Britain refuses to enter, because of the proclomation. how can it justify fighting a war to protect slavery to its people?so your comment that a white guy rescued them all? it wasn't out of the goodness of his heart--he wanted to ship them out of america. he initially wasn't even pro-abolition. he ended it for political reasosns--preservation of the Union.

I'm not sure how widespread these two are in school curricula, but in my senior english class we readI Know Why the Caged Bird Sings
Their Eyes Were Watching God.granted, it was for an AP/IB english. but yeah, not too many authors (besides white ones) are read in schools.

or how about the comment by the Colt's coach"I'm proud to be representing african-americans"?why does he need to make that statement? Do the white coaches say "I'm proud to be representin'"? not to my knowledge.if there was no racism, such comments wouldn't be made. (not that the comment is racist, but rather, a result of racism).