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Author Topic:   update: freedom found, natural selection theory pushed aside
dokukaeru
Member (Idle past 4614 days)
Posts: 129
From: ohio
Joined: 06-27-2008


Message 34 of 224 (476981)
07-29-2008 8:37 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by mike the wiz
07-29-2008 7:56 AM


This is a science forum show proof
mike the wiz writes:
You infact favour evolution subjectively, as in reality, there is nothing stopping the history of the flood if that's what happened in history.
This is off topic and should continue in another thread Mike.
Actually, there is overwhelming evidence that a world wide flood never occured. Can you point out any evidence that it did occur?
I refer you to these 2 boards:
http://EvC Forum: 100 Categories of Evidence Against Noah’s Flood -->EvC Forum: 100 Categories of Evidence Against Noah’s Flood
http://EvC Forum: Age of the Earth in Stages, Great Debate, S1WC and RAZD only -->EvC Forum: Age of the Earth in Stages, Great Debate, S1WC and RAZD only
I am sure that you will just gloss over all of this evidence but, just to point out a few:
anglagard writes:
7. Ice sheets - Ice caps can’t reform in the time allotted since any global flood of 4500 years ago.
4. Carbonates - The huge amount of CO2 in the atmosphere prior to being locked into carbonate rock would have made the planet resemble Venus. There would have been no life to drown.
29. Worldwide iridium layer - Although any worldwide flood evidence is lacking, there is a worldwide iridium layer at the K-T boundary where it exists. How could this iridium layer have been deposited among all those swirling waters in a flood?
41. Multiple glaciations - There are at least four major separate evidences of glaciations in the geologic record separated by eons. How could all four occur during a flood while supposedly underwater?
58. Parasites - Parasites require hosts in order to survive. Were all creatures on any ark hosts and how did they survive such parasitism?
59. Diseases - Diseases that exist today require hosts to survive. How did all the infected animals survive simultaneously being hosts to every disease currently around?
66. Tree ring data - Rings on currently living trees that indicate they are older than 4500 years do not indicate that they were drowned and died at the time of any proposed global flood.
71. Food pyramid - how could the predation relationship be preserved with only a pair of creatures at the bottom of the chain?
86. No human activity in deeper layers - There are no indications of human activity, or even humans, in any geologic layers prior to the Pleistocene.
88. Egyptian history - Why did the Egyptians not mention a flood during their monument building period?.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by mike the wiz, posted 07-29-2008 7:56 AM mike the wiz has not replied

dokukaeru
Member (Idle past 4614 days)
Posts: 129
From: ohio
Joined: 06-27-2008


Message 70 of 224 (479540)
08-28-2008 7:43 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by Syamsu
08-28-2008 2:59 AM


syamsu writes:
The result of your incomprehensible hostility is that your own knowledge about freedom does not get developed. And I'm pretty sure that means your knowledge about freedom contains many errors in the sense that it does not provide for alternatives in the future. I've seen that lots of times with people, that they mistake alternatives in the brain, with alternatives in the future. So all in all, my knowledge about freedom is much better than yours I'm quite sure, eventhough you are right that my knowledge is also not perfect.
What this paragraph boils down to is, "I am smarter than you, and you cannot understand."
You are still failing to show some evidence other than pointing to the taborsky paper and the dubois paper.
So tell me syamsu, did hominids "choose" to lose a functioning gene that creates a protein that can make vitamin c? If so, why did they, it, their atoms or whatever you are claiming to have freedom do so? It is much more likely that hominids lost this functioning gene due to their diet high in vegetable matter. We really could use that ability to produce vitamin c now. If they looked into the future wouldn't thay have seen this comming?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Syamsu, posted 08-28-2008 2:59 AM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Syamsu, posted 08-28-2008 10:42 AM dokukaeru has replied

dokukaeru
Member (Idle past 4614 days)
Posts: 129
From: ohio
Joined: 06-27-2008


Message 72 of 224 (479569)
08-28-2008 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by Syamsu
08-28-2008 10:42 AM


That is essentailly what you are saying.
We have almost all of the genes to make vitamin c except one is now defective:
wikipedia.org writes:
Among the animals that have lost the ability to synthesise vitamin C are simians (specifically the suborder haplorrhini), guinea pigs, a number of species of passerine birds (but not all of them), and in apparently many major families of bats and perhaps all of them. Humans have no enzymatic capability to manufacture vitamin C. The cause of this phenomenon is that the last enzyme in the synthesis process, L-gulonolactone oxidase, cannot be made by the listed animals because the gene for this enzyme, Pseudogene GULO, is defective.[24] The mutation has not been lethal because vitamin C is abundant in their food sources. It has been found that species with this mutation (including humans) have adapted a vitamin C recycling mechanism to compensate.[25]
How does your interpretation of freedom explain this problem?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Syamsu, posted 08-28-2008 10:42 AM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by Syamsu, posted 08-28-2008 7:45 PM dokukaeru has replied

dokukaeru
Member (Idle past 4614 days)
Posts: 129
From: ohio
Joined: 06-27-2008


Message 89 of 224 (479798)
08-30-2008 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Syamsu
08-28-2008 7:45 PM


syamsu writes:
I am not the expert on knowledge about freedom, you can argue it yourself if it could have turned out another way, you don't need me for that.
Nice hand waving.
So your position is that you simultaneously know more than everyone here and not enough of this anticipation theory to argue your point?
I will ask the question again:
So tell me syamsu, did hominids "choose" to lose a functioning gene that creates a protein that can make vitamin c? If so, why did they, it, their atoms or whatever you are claiming to have freedom do so? It is much more likely that hominids lost this functioning gene due to their diet high in vegetable matter. We really could use that ability to produce vitamin c now. If they looked into the future wouldn't thay have seen this comming?
There had to be the option to have a set of functioning vitamin c producing genes because other mammals have it and we have almost all except one which is now pseudogene.
(In the most unhostile way)Please could you answer my question, and the questions of others?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Syamsu, posted 08-28-2008 7:45 PM Syamsu has not replied

dokukaeru
Member (Idle past 4614 days)
Posts: 129
From: ohio
Joined: 06-27-2008


Message 90 of 224 (479799)
08-30-2008 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Syamsu
08-30-2008 4:59 AM


Re: Scientific Theory?
Syamsu writes:
In creationism there is a division between the material and the spiritual, the objective and the subjective, so there is basically no problem.
This is the opposite of reality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Syamsu, posted 08-30-2008 4:59 AM Syamsu has not replied

dokukaeru
Member (Idle past 4614 days)
Posts: 129
From: ohio
Joined: 06-27-2008


Message 101 of 224 (479957)
08-31-2008 8:26 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by Syamsu
08-30-2008 5:53 PM


Re: Scientific Theory?
Syamsu writes:
The question was raised in the thread if or not the loss of vitiman c production could have turned out differently
Sorry this is not the question I asked you. See below for the actual question.
Syamsu writes:
Was there freedom in the system, was there actually an alternative possible that the gene would persist.
Obviously the loss of vitamin c production could have turned out differently since other mammals have the ability to produce it.
Syamsu writes:
And then according to creationism the question why the one was decided on instead of the other is a matter of judgement, which can only be discovered subjectively. By doctrine of reasonable judgement for instance, or common judgement, etc. and most highest in light of the doctrine of God the creator of the universe.
FAIL. You cannot answer my question. All you can do is invoke God in a science thread.
Most of what you said is just nonsense.
I think what you are trying to say is God judged that we do not need to produce our own vitamin c.
If that is the case, you are now arguing that THERE IS NO FREEDOM GOD CONTROLS ALL.
You are also saying that God wanted us to suffer scury.
Tangent: Did you know the name for vitamin c ,ascorbic acid, is from the word for scurvy, scorbuticus
Doku writes:
I will ask the question again:
So tell me syamsu, did hominids "choose" to lose a functioning gene that creates a protein that can make vitamin c? If so, why did they, it, their atoms or whatever you are claiming to have freedom do so? It is much more likely that hominids lost this functioning gene due to their diet high in vegetable matter. We really could use that ability to produce vitamin c now. If they looked into the future wouldn't thay have seen this comming?
There had to be the option to have a set of functioning vitamin c producing genes because other mammals have it and we have almost all except one which is now pseudogene.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Syamsu, posted 08-30-2008 5:53 PM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by Syamsu, posted 08-31-2008 2:25 PM dokukaeru has replied

dokukaeru
Member (Idle past 4614 days)
Posts: 129
From: ohio
Joined: 06-27-2008


Message 105 of 224 (480011)
08-31-2008 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by Syamsu
08-31-2008 2:25 PM


Rubbish Syamsu
Syamsu writes:
I was just pointing out, for the hundredth time or so, that scientists must be subjective about why questions.
You sir(or madam), are delusional.
That is the rule in science, you cannot make objective statements about good and evil
The rule in science is YOU CANNOT MAKE ANY STATEMENTS AT ALL ABOUT GOOD AND EVIL. They dont belong in science, they belong in philosophy.
Now if you all could just remember these things:
- alternatives are in the future
- the act of realizing an alternative is a decision
- it is not possible to make objective statements about why one or the other alternative is realized
Rubbish, unless you can show otherwise. Try to answer Message 101
For people who quite evidently have no theoretical framework to fall back on for as far as knowledge about freedom is concerned, you learned nothing about it in school or college, you should all present a more studious attitude.
You learned nothing in school about freedom either. You cannot explain it here. You continue to spout off rubbish. You should present some evidence of freedom pushing aside natural selection or concede that you cannot and take this freedom back to philosophy or religious studies.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Syamsu, posted 08-31-2008 2:25 PM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Syamsu, posted 08-31-2008 4:35 PM dokukaeru has replied

dokukaeru
Member (Idle past 4614 days)
Posts: 129
From: ohio
Joined: 06-27-2008


Message 112 of 224 (480032)
08-31-2008 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by Syamsu
08-31-2008 4:12 PM


Re: Scientific Theory?
Doku writes:
You sir(or madam), are delusional.
I take this back.
You sir(or madam), are a delusional idiot.
Want to try and address Message 101 or Message 105?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Syamsu, posted 08-31-2008 4:12 PM Syamsu has not replied

dokukaeru
Member (Idle past 4614 days)
Posts: 129
From: ohio
Joined: 06-27-2008


Message 116 of 224 (480043)
08-31-2008 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by Syamsu
08-31-2008 4:35 PM


Re: Rubbish Syamsu
The vitamin c genes are still in humans. One has mutated into a non-functioning gene (a psuedogene).
You still have done nothing to answer the question in Message 101
I refer back to my conclusion in Message 112
Got in new rubbish to spread on this fire Syamsu?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Syamsu, posted 08-31-2008 4:35 PM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by Syamsu, posted 08-31-2008 6:41 PM dokukaeru has not replied

dokukaeru
Member (Idle past 4614 days)
Posts: 129
From: ohio
Joined: 06-27-2008


Message 131 of 224 (480085)
08-31-2008 7:41 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by Syamsu
08-31-2008 7:13 PM


Re: Good Planets and Evil Toothbrushes
syamsu writes:
Yes I do believe toothbrushes make decisions, that they anticipate their future. And thats because if toothbrushes didnt decide then you would have the even weirder situation that toothbrushes are same as light, that they are in a state of alternatives, called the wave state with light, and that a decider can decide their state for them. Its been established that small molecules dont decide their own state, just like light. So that is observation against toothbrushes deciding.
The words you type have the freedom to become shear nonsense.
Any chance of a reply to Message 101 No? Of course, you have that freedom.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Syamsu, posted 08-31-2008 7:13 PM Syamsu has not replied

dokukaeru
Member (Idle past 4614 days)
Posts: 129
From: ohio
Joined: 06-27-2008


Message 133 of 224 (480090)
08-31-2008 7:48 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by Syamsu
08-31-2008 7:18 PM


update: Freedom found.....in a song
Granny Magda writes:
Honestly, this is just silly. I know that creationists are desperate for anything that can be made to look as though it supports your views, but this just seems desperate.
Gives a whole new meaning to:
Kris Kristofferson in Bobby Mcgee writes:
Freedoms just another word for nothin left to lose, And nothin aint worth nothin but its free

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by Syamsu, posted 08-31-2008 7:18 PM Syamsu has not replied

dokukaeru
Member (Idle past 4614 days)
Posts: 129
From: ohio
Joined: 06-27-2008


Message 137 of 224 (480102)
08-31-2008 8:14 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by Syamsu
08-31-2008 8:06 PM


Re: Good Planets and Evil Toothbrushes
syamsu writes:
we should simply accept the principle and proceed
So you agree that your version of freedom and anticipatory theory is nonscientific nonsense?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Syamsu, posted 08-31-2008 8:06 PM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by Syamsu, posted 08-31-2008 8:29 PM dokukaeru has replied

dokukaeru
Member (Idle past 4614 days)
Posts: 129
From: ohio
Joined: 06-27-2008


Message 139 of 224 (480106)
08-31-2008 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by onifre
08-31-2008 8:15 PM


Re: Good Planets and Evil Toothbrushes
onifre writes:
They must have AMAZING weed in Amsterdam
I have been thinking this the entire thread. Some of Syamsu's responses seem like hasish induced delirium.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by onifre, posted 08-31-2008 8:15 PM onifre has not replied

dokukaeru
Member (Idle past 4614 days)
Posts: 129
From: ohio
Joined: 06-27-2008


Message 142 of 224 (480111)
08-31-2008 8:51 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by Syamsu
08-31-2008 8:29 PM


Re: Good Planets and Evil Toothbrushes
Syamsu writes:
I think Dubois anticipation theory is going to make it in science, thats kind of inevitable with the technical applicability of it.
Then why dont you please explain to us?
I only see incomprehensible hostility to theories about freedom on the part of you all, not like you have some other math and observations about freedom of any kind to offer.
All I see from you is bare assertions, invocation of magic, and an inability to explain anything Syamsu.
STILL WAITING FOR A RESPONSE TO Message 101
You are all simply against knowledge about freedom, which is terrible.
No, we are against delusion assertions without any scientific evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by Syamsu, posted 08-31-2008 8:29 PM Syamsu has not replied

dokukaeru
Member (Idle past 4614 days)
Posts: 129
From: ohio
Joined: 06-27-2008


Message 170 of 224 (480300)
09-02-2008 9:38 AM
Reply to: Message 169 by Syamsu
09-02-2008 9:07 AM


Re: Good Planets and Evil Toothbrushes
Syamsu writes:
perfect predictability in principle
and in pratice
So we are in agreement that your anticipation theory is unnecessary and violates parsimony in science?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by Syamsu, posted 09-02-2008 9:07 AM Syamsu has not replied

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