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Author Topic:   The Cult Of The Amateur
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 21 (480847)
09-06-2008 9:52 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
09-06-2008 6:23 AM


Phat writes:
The author uses Wikipedia as a prime example of what happens when a source of knowledge is run by a plethora of amateurs rather than a panel of experts.
Panels of experts are needful, but be mindful that experts generally amount to products from the assembly line of programmed educational institutions which over time dwindles down to the mindset of the prevailing few who determine the criteria.
To keep the experts objective and honest the freedom and ability to access information from the grass root lay folks who are out there in the real world experimenting, researching, applying practical principles and techniques, observing, improvising, debating, etc becomes necessary for optimal understanding and improvement relative to understanding, technique, truth and knowledge.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Phat, posted 09-06-2008 6:23 AM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by subbie, posted 09-06-2008 11:11 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 5 by Rrhain, posted 09-07-2008 2:11 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 21 (480937)
09-07-2008 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by subbie
09-06-2008 11:11 PM


Dealing With Academia
Subbie writes:
Please describe your personal experience in academia that qualifies you to express this opinion. Or are you simply parroting the same old line again, regardless of a supporting factual basis?
Man, I've been dealing with academia people for 50+ years, including 5 years on this board, some of who don't have an ounce of common sense. Others who have a lot of sense and knowledge have taught me some things. Some have allowed me to teach them as well.
My pastor is about to get his doctorate. He comes to me who has no degree whatsoever for understanding in scriptures such as the prophecies, the doctrine of the trinity and other things. On the other hand his expertise on Biblical history and many other doctrinal topics has taught me much, though I've been in the Bible for a long time. He and I have the mutual opinion that iron sharpens iron.
Subbie, as for the old line insultive personal jab, nobody here always satisfies their opponents relative to supporting facts to substantiate the views they are debating.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by subbie, posted 09-06-2008 11:11 PM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Rrhain, posted 09-07-2008 9:22 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 10 by subbie, posted 09-07-2008 10:03 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 21 (480941)
09-07-2008 9:56 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Rrhain
09-07-2008 2:11 AM


Rrhain writes:
At no time, however, does "grass root lay folks" enter into it. Even if you are an amateur, you still need to know what you're doing. Science isn't something you can "common sense" your way through. Things don't function the way you expect, there are variables that aren't obvious that need to be controlled for, and you always need to be willing to consider the possibility that everything you think you know about everything is wrong.
It is not enough to simply think you know what you're doing. You have to actually show it.
When was the last time you did any original research, Buzsaw?
* "Yes, it is radioactive and you will run a higher risk of cancer some 40 or 50 years down the line, but it is also highly toxic and poison you much more quickly."
1. Rrhain, for your information, some of the greatest technological feats, inventions, accomplishments in the history of the ages has been accomplished by amateurs, btw, who did know what they were doing, stuff which would never ever have been achieved were it left up to the educated elite.
2. The OP of this thread is relative to Wikipedia and such. Only a small percentage of what we're talking about has anything to do with peer reviews.
3. What has original research got to do with the ability of amateurs to contribute to knowledge and information? Let me ask you some questions. How many watches or clocks have you repaired, having no training for the job? How much of your auto repair can you do after the experts have failed to get it going? Do you know a little trick which will fix the leaky clutch cylinder when the experts say you need a new or rebuilt one? Have you ever repaired a pressure gage which the experts couldn't fix? Do you know how to clean a dirty mirror, window or other glassware without a drop of fluid of any kind, leaving no streaks or film whatsoever? Do you think you could keep yourself and your family well enough via alternative methodology, including removing the aching from teeth, dealing with fever, healing infections, gut problems, back problems, etc without a professional practitioner? Do you think you could become what Rush Limbaugh has achieved on his own?
Are you aware that the majority of the great inventors of the Industrial Revolution in it's earlier stages were non-professional and uneducated in science and technology?

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Rrhain, posted 09-07-2008 2:11 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Rrhain, posted 09-07-2008 11:24 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 21 (480945)
09-07-2008 10:35 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by subbie
09-07-2008 10:03 PM


Re: Dealing With Academia
Subbie writes:
.... in no way justifies your failure to substantiate yours, particularly when specifically questioned about it.
If you insist on these personal attacks you need to cite specifics and while you're at it, keep your own nose clean relative to factual substantiation of arguments. There's a forum for your complaints and it's not here.
We all consider our arguments to be substantial. You don't think mine are and I don't think yours are, but I don't go at you in the threads adnausium with these personal attacks. This appears to be what you do when you can't refute because it's easier for you to go at me than to substantially refute my arguments.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by subbie, posted 09-07-2008 10:03 PM subbie has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Rrhain, posted 09-07-2008 11:45 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
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