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Author Topic:   Evolving New Information
cavediver
Member (Idle past 1956 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 140 of 458 (519222)
08-12-2009 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by pandion
08-12-2009 10:35 AM


Re: Condons
Actually, it is you who has failed to understand...

Hmmm, Pandion, good idea to check to whom you are replying, and to whom they in turn were replying. Saves a good bit of egg on your face. Just saying...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by pandion, posted 08-12-2009 10:35 AM pandion has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by pandion, posted 08-12-2009 2:53 PM cavediver has responded

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 1956 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 144 of 458 (519248)
08-12-2009 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by pandion
08-12-2009 2:53 PM


Re: Condons
WoundedKing apparently lacks the knowledge to understand that.

I've always said that once you've started digging yourslef a hole, you may as well see how deep you can get it

As a hint, WK is actually our resident professional geneticist, microbiologist, biochemist, or whatever... I'm unclear as to whether he's merely a post-doc, or a long-tenured HoD with far too much time on his hands, but either way he talks the talk and certainly does not suffer from a lack of knowledge in this area


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 Message 141 by pandion, posted 08-12-2009 2:53 PM pandion has not yet responded

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cavediver
Member (Idle past 1956 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 209 of 458 (521128)
08-26-2009 5:45 AM
Reply to: Message 195 by Wounded King
08-25-2009 7:55 AM


Re: What is information?
I'd tend to disagree with this. I can certainly accept that DNA can be considered a code, but I am not sure it is helpful to think of it as a language

To me, the language analogy fails almost immediately. A point mutation changes a letter, and the whole sentance becomes meaningless, nevermind just the mutated word. How do we interpret the result of this?

I think viewing DNA as pure machine code is much closer - however you mutate the code, it still means something. If the mutation is in an instruction code binary string, it will simply change it to another instruction and something will still happen. With DNA point mutations in coding sections, amino acids will still be selected, proteins will still be built, things will still happen - whatever they happen to be...

Would you agree?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by Wounded King, posted 08-25-2009 7:55 AM Wounded King has responded

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cavediver
Member (Idle past 1956 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 231 of 458 (521438)
08-27-2009 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 230 by traderdrew
08-27-2009 12:23 PM


Science should challenge itself and if and when it fails to find a unambiguous example of an explanation then, perhaps we could credit intelligent design as a casual explantion.

I see. Tell me, how many times in the past three thousand years of scientific endeavour has the "intelligent designer" been found to be the cause behind a phenomenon?

Edited by Admin, : Fix grammar.


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cavediver
Member (Idle past 1956 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 233 of 458 (521580)
08-28-2009 5:45 AM
Reply to: Message 232 by LucyTheApe
08-28-2009 4:59 AM


Re: What is information?
I'll show you what I mean by adding information. I'll take my example of a piece of code:

That's a nice example. How much more information does the second piece of code contain than the first?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by LucyTheApe, posted 08-28-2009 4:59 AM LucyTheApe has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 235 by LucyTheApe, posted 08-28-2009 6:14 AM cavediver has responded

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 1956 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 240 of 458 (521600)
08-28-2009 8:00 AM
Reply to: Message 235 by LucyTheApe
08-28-2009 6:14 AM


Re: What is information?
that's a mathematical task that I'm not going to attempt for the sake of a response.

So you do know how to quantify it, yes?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by LucyTheApe, posted 08-28-2009 6:14 AM LucyTheApe has responded

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cavediver
Member (Idle past 1956 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 433 of 458 (544303)
01-25-2010 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 431 by Jazzns
01-25-2010 10:54 AM


Re: Metric!
I have said this before to no avail, getting no attention from either side.

Well, I decided long ago to avoid any of these discussions until they raised themselves to the point of appreciating what you have just posted


This message is a reply to:
 Message 431 by Jazzns, posted 01-25-2010 10:54 AM Jazzns has responded

Replies to this message:
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cavediver
Member (Idle past 1956 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 435 of 458 (544319)
01-25-2010 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 434 by Jazzns
01-25-2010 11:54 AM


Re: Metric!
If using your measuring tool I can measure the information of two different things yet get the same measurement, then your measurement tool is crap. QED.

If your measurement is simply scalar, then you're being a bit harsh here - you can have two utterly different entities that just by chance happen to have the same information measure.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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cavediver
Member (Idle past 1956 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 437 of 458 (544332)
01-25-2010 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 436 by Jazzns
01-25-2010 1:04 PM


Re: Metric!
Yes, agree totally. And few seem to appreciate the over-whelming importance of context and environment in trying to understand what is meant by "specified" information. How much "specified" information is there in a five second burst of white noise? And how does your answer change when I reveal that it was identical to a previously recorded burst of white noise, only played backwards?

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