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Author Topic:   Evolving New Information
onifre
Member (Idle past 1267 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 22 of 458 (509077)
05-18-2009 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by slevesque
05-18-2009 5:38 AM


But if you mean bacteria-to-elephant evolution, then at some point you will need new information.

This is a bad example of evolution, actually, it seems like a creationist's opinion of evolution.

Evolution means descent with modification, period.

This "gap bridging" that you feel *new* information is needed for is not anything expressed in the theory of evoution.

It seems like a strawman.

It took billions of years to go from "bacteria" to "elephant" by means of descent with modification.

No one means evolution as in "bacteria-to-elephant".

(or rather new traits)

What new traits do you see in todays birds that didn't exist in dinosuars?

What traits do you see in modern vertebrates that you don't see in early vertebrates?


"I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks

"I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky


This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by slevesque, posted 05-18-2009 5:38 AM slevesque has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by slevesque, posted 05-19-2009 2:16 AM onifre has responded

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 1267 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 34 of 458 (509217)
05-19-2009 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Percy
05-19-2009 8:35 AM


end e mispeled bek to.
--perch

Perch, did you pass out on your keyboard again...?

- Ino


This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Percy, posted 05-19-2009 8:35 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 1267 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 36 of 458 (509221)
05-19-2009 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by slevesque
05-19-2009 2:16 AM


What I wanted to say is this. If you show me a population of pinches, who's beeks change in size and shape depending on the environment and the food they have access to, and say this is descent with modification, then I will readily approve with you.

Ok

But if, after having shown me this, you tell me that such a mechanism, extrapolated to vast amounts of time, could turn a pinch into let's say, a horse, then I will not agree with you.

Neither would I, any one familiar with biology or an experts in the field. So you are in good company. :)

If you want to use the former (descent with modification) to prove the latter (dinosaurs are the ancestors of birds, modern apes and humans have a common ancestor, etc.) you will need much more than that.

Ok. How about genetics, fossils and similar morphology...?

This is why it would be interesting to discuss the Lenski experiment, since when I read the article back in 2007, it was actually the very first time that I said to myself: maybe they finally have it, maybe they do have a recorded example of a new trait evolving in a population.

Would bipedal features on a primate be considered a *new* trait...?

We can discuss the Lenski experiment if you want, honestly I'm not that familiar with the specifics, but the fossil record and genetics gives us the evidence we need to show *new* traits.

- Oni


"I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks

"I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky


This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by slevesque, posted 05-19-2009 2:16 AM slevesque has not yet responded

  
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