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Author Topic:   Mutation
Member (Idle past 869 days)
Posts: 1457
Joined: 12-27-2001

Message 141 of 171 (104735)
05-02-2004 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by Milagros
04-30-2004 9:44 AM

Fine, show me the "Math" that makes it a "certainty". Or show me the “number” that makes it “probable”. Until YOU do, all YOU are doing is...GUESSING! You may disagree at my conclusions but you provide no model to work from to support yours when it comes to calculating how many “beneficial” mutations must have occurred to result in all of the varied life we see on earth today.

Hi Milagros,

I have not read all 10 pages of this thread, and don't really plan to. But I have a couple of questions/comments.
How many "beneficial mutations" do YOU think speciation requires, and how did you derive that number?
Why do you think that speciation requires beneficial mutations and more importantly, what is the definition of beneficial you are using?


You base your conclusion on, well since there are SOooooo many species and Sooo many genes within each species then it MUST have occurred. If you cannot provide a model to base your conclusions on then all you are left with is “deductive” or “inductive” reasoning.

I predict that any attempt to make such a model would be greeted with extreme skepticism if not scorn from the creationist community as they would find some reason to declare that the numbers favor 'Darwinism' or some such thing, as Walter ReMine has done with regard to Haldane's calculations (though ReMine has not been able to explain in any way how the numbers he used were unrealistic or overly favorable).

So, when you find out how many such mutations are required, you let us know. I am sure that Nature or Science would publish your manuscript in a heartbeat.

Personally, I am comfortable in not knowing. Not knowing in part because it is pretty obvious that if such a number even exists, it is highly variable. Highly variable variables don't tend to make nice, clean math.

(2) "A second characteristic of the pseudo-scientist, which greatly strengthens his isolation, is a tendency toward paranoia," which manifests itself in several ways:
...(3) He believes himself unjustly persecuted and discriminated against...(4) He has strong compulsions to focus his attacks on the greatest scientists and the best-established theories. ..

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Milagros, posted 04-30-2004 9:44 AM Milagros has not yet responded

Member (Idle past 869 days)
Posts: 1457
Joined: 12-27-2001

Message 146 of 171 (105163)
05-04-2004 9:04 AM

So you don't know how many mutations are required, and thus, claims that there is not enough time for them to accumulate and such are just hot air.


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