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Author Topic:   Peppered Moths and Natural Selection
Someone who cares
Member (Idle past 4863 days)
Posts: 192
Joined: 06-06-2006


Message 133 of 350 (347414)
09-07-2006 11:00 PM


It's quite obvious...
Peppered moths, sigh, no, they don't show evolution. It's quite simple: A- the peppered moths stayed moths, they didn't evolve into flies or butterflies. B- There was no genetic code added to the pepper moths, which evolution would require. C- Macroevolution was NOT observed, the moths didn't evolve any new organs or tissues, all that happened was a color change, a variation within a kind.


"If you’re living like there is no God you’d better be right!" - Unknown

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by RAZD, posted 09-08-2006 12:23 AM Someone who cares has responded
 Message 140 by Quetzal, posted 09-08-2006 10:44 AM Someone who cares has not yet responded

  
Someone who cares
Member (Idle past 4863 days)
Posts: 192
Joined: 06-06-2006


Message 138 of 350 (347473)
09-08-2006 1:09 AM
Reply to: Message 137 by RAZD
09-08-2006 12:23 AM


Re: It's quite obvious... REALLY quite obvious!
Curious, why were you suspended?

I don't understand why you haven't learned that evolution is false yet... Guess I'm not trying hard enough... Let's see then.

quote:
{A} It was never claimed that moths changed into butterflies or even into a different species of moth, but that natural selection changed the relative proportions of the populations of existing varieties of peppered moth first one way and then the other in response to pollution and it's abatement: thus your attempted characterization of it like this above is a totally false one, typical of your search for "truth" as you claim on your website eh?

I know you didn't claim that, if you did, you would be lying and knowing about it too. What I AM saying is that pepper moths do NOT show macroevolution. So what if you showed part of natural selection in action? You failed to show it in action for MACROEVOLUTION. Thus you were only supporting the proof that only microevolution happens and that God made a nice filter process to keep the strong and healthy and adaptive animals reproducing.

quote:
{B}It was never claimed that the genetic code "added" as all that happened is a change in the frequencies of alleles in the populations: thus your attempted characterization of it like this above is a totally false one, typical of your search for "truth" as you claim on your website eh?

Once again, I KNOW that you never claimed this. What I AM saying is that you have failed to show macroevolution, which would require genetic information increases. Which would make your whole pepper moth story irrelevant to the subject- evolution, macroevolution.

quote:
{C} It was never claimed that "Macroevolution" was involved or observed (especially of the "kind" your really ludicrous and inherently false characterization of evolution involving sudden "new organs or tissues"): thus your attempted characterization of it like this above is a totally false one, typical of your search for "truth" as you claim on your website eh?

I was assuming you were using the pepper moth example as support for evolution, macroevolution. But if you weren't, why else would you have posted it if it was irrelevant to the subject of discussion? If all you did was show microevolution and natural selection working with it, as the way God made it, to have a better world, why would you put it in a forum about Evolution versus Creation and be an evolutionist?

quote:
Further, the moths also did NOT change colors -- each variety stayed the same colors they were before, they just changed in the numbers present\surviving within each variety population due to differential predation: thus your attempted characterization of it like this above is another totally false one, typical of your search for "truth" as you claim on your website eh?

I forgot that. Excuse me then, the moths DIDN'T change colors. (Still clearing some cobwebs from my evolution arguments, been a while since my last debate...)

quote:
I checked your website recently btw, just out of curiosity to see if you had made any corrections to the falsehoods that have been noted about it. I saw you had added some material but had not made those corrections. This shows your dedication to truth and integrity eh?

Actually, reread my essay on evolution there. I did make a few rewordings to make it more proper, just recently.

quote:
Perhaps you like to return to the LUCY thread and deal with your comprehension problems there as well ...

What problems? Lucy was a chimpanzee, nothing more. No human characteristics to make it a hominid.


"If you’re living like there is no God you’d better be right!" - Unknown

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by RAZD, posted 09-08-2006 12:23 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by RAZD, posted 09-08-2006 7:39 AM Someone who cares has not yet responded

  
Someone who cares
Member (Idle past 4863 days)
Posts: 192
Joined: 06-06-2006


Message 152 of 350 (347630)
09-08-2006 8:56 PM


Challenge, who's up for it?
Ok, I came here to debate about evolution, and I'm not getting the experience I would like. I started about pepper moths, but the argument turns around to me and my words instead of evolution and it's fallacies. I would like to propose a challenge, for a one on one moderated debate (in the appropriate topic - the Great Debate) with anyone who would like, to show the proof that directly relates to evolution, macroevolution. Step right up to the plate. I want a real debate, where the debate will be directly about the evidence and what it shows in regards to evolution. Who's up for it? Razd, you seem to like attacking me in particular, maybe you would like to accept my challenge? Or maybe someone else? Come on now, let's agree so that we can ask for a debate topic to be opened up for us. Either accept the challenge, or deny it, but don't keep on debating about me and what I say, the topic is evolution vs. Creation, so let's do it how it's supposed to be done... I'm waiting...

By the way, I do not wish to reply to the attacks at me, if someone has something about evolution, evidence, pepper moths, natural selection, etc, then we may debate and discuss. But discussions about me, my words, what you think of them and what you think they are, etc, is not really on topic here. Remember, try to debate about the information and interpreting it, not the people.


"If you’re living like there is no God you’d better be right!" - Unknown

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by RAZD, posted 09-08-2006 9:20 PM Someone who cares has not yet responded
 Message 155 by anglagard, posted 09-08-2006 9:28 PM Someone who cares has not yet responded
 Message 167 by RAZD, posted 09-09-2006 8:21 AM Someone who cares has not yet responded
 Message 168 by jerker77, posted 09-09-2006 5:57 PM Someone who cares has not yet responded

  
Someone who cares
Member (Idle past 4863 days)
Posts: 192
Joined: 06-06-2006


Message 157 of 350 (347681)
09-08-2006 10:52 PM


ANYONE?
I see no one is brave enough to step up to my challenge so far... Just one brave soul to debate with me one on one...

And yes, it is very overwhelming, I feel I am one against a whole army, that's why I want to switch to a Great Debate with someone...

Come now, who shall defend their FAITH in evolution?

Like I said, I want an accept or deny reply, not more talk about me and my essay and my words to avoid the real matter...

I'm still waiting...

Now I feel like Goliath when he challenged Israel to send one man to fight him... :) Who's the David of these forums? :)


"If you’re living like there is no God you’d better be right!" - Unknown

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by anglagard, posted 09-08-2006 10:57 PM Someone who cares has responded
 Message 166 by RAZD, posted 09-09-2006 8:08 AM Someone who cares has not yet responded

  
Someone who cares
Member (Idle past 4863 days)
Posts: 192
Joined: 06-06-2006


Message 159 of 350 (347700)
09-08-2006 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by anglagard
09-08-2006 10:57 PM


Re: ANYONE?
Great!

Yeah, me too, I have a life independent of forums as well, so... Oh, and when my classes start, I may not be able to get to this at all, so have that in mind...

First we must agree on a topic for the Great Debate, what shall it be? Proof for evolution? Validity of Evolution? My essay? Something else?


"If you’re living like there is no God you’d better be right!" - Unknown

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by anglagard, posted 09-08-2006 10:57 PM anglagard has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by anglagard, posted 09-08-2006 11:21 PM Someone who cares has responded

  
Someone who cares
Member (Idle past 4863 days)
Posts: 192
Joined: 06-06-2006


Message 161 of 350 (347715)
09-08-2006 11:34 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by anglagard
09-08-2006 11:21 PM


Re: Topic
Ok then, I'll notify a mod or administrator that we want to have a Great Debate.


"If you’re living like there is no God you’d better be right!" - Unknown

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by anglagard, posted 09-08-2006 11:21 PM anglagard has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by AdminJar, posted 09-08-2006 11:37 PM Someone who cares has responded

  
Someone who cares
Member (Idle past 4863 days)
Posts: 192
Joined: 06-06-2006


Message 163 of 350 (347720)
09-08-2006 11:50 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by AdminJar
09-08-2006 11:37 PM


Re: Topic
Oh... I already sent an email to the Administrator... If it comes, just ignore it then.

Edited by Someone who cares, : No reason given.


"If you’re living like there is no God you’d better be right!" - Unknown

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by AdminJar, posted 09-08-2006 11:37 PM AdminJar has not yet responded

  
Someone who cares
Member (Idle past 4863 days)
Posts: 192
Joined: 06-06-2006


Message 180 of 350 (347865)
09-09-2006 9:54 PM


I just want to say that I will focus more of my attention and posting to the Great Debate between me and Anglagard, so my posting here may be limited or just non existent. I have classes starting soon, so I want to get the Great Debate going and mostly finished while I have the time.

Remember: God loves you! And He's waiting for you to come to Him, don't hold up, come to your Creator soon!


"If you’re living like there is no God you’d better be right!" - Unknown

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by RAZD, posted 09-09-2006 10:13 PM Someone who cares has not yet responded

  
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