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Author Topic:   Peppered Moths and Natural Selection
Akrid
Inactive Member


Message 208 of 350 (354098)
10-04-2006 9:01 AM


I’m not sure if this question fits here but I having this conversation with a creationist who said a animal has a set number of information in its DNA and it cant change species unless some scientist splices its DNA (and no doubt angering god in the process) He also seemed to think that because breeding dogs has not led to a new species that must mean dogs cant evolve.
All I knew to say is that we have been breeding dogs for only a short time compared to how long it takes for something to evolve that is so big. And also that breeding dogs with different dogs would only help them stay a dogs, it’s when a group gets isolated over a long time that they can evolve.
However I wasn’t able to refute his claim that there’s a glass ceiling to how much a animal can evolve. And that DNA has a set number of information. I’m sure he’s wrong in his interpretation of how DNA works, but I'm not knowledgeable enough about it myself to finish the conversation.
So thats when I decided I should join a forum where people know about this so I can learn stuff. Can sombody explain to me how DNA works when it evolves to make a new species? I figure it has somthing to do with Zygotes or somthing.
Edited by Akrid, : No reason given.

I am the only person god created, everyone else evolved

Replies to this message:
 Message 209 by AdminModulous, posted 10-04-2006 10:23 AM Akrid has replied
 Message 211 by MartinV, posted 10-06-2006 1:46 PM Akrid has replied

  
Akrid
Inactive Member


Message 210 of 350 (354137)
10-04-2006 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 209 by AdminModulous
10-04-2006 10:23 AM


Yes, I regretted posting in the peppered moth thread shortly after posting this, Im so used to other forums going way off topic, guess Im conditioned, I assumed this would have turned into a valility of evolution debate. Anyway thanks for the links I'll check out those threads.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by AdminModulous, posted 10-04-2006 10:23 AM AdminModulous has not replied

  
Akrid
Inactive Member


Message 213 of 350 (354863)
10-06-2006 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by MartinV
10-06-2006 1:46 PM


So let me get this straight, the creationist are arguing that because the industrial revolution was man-made it’s unnatural and makes the peppered moth evolution a product of mans meddling?
If that is the or a argument they are using here, I'd reply;
It doesn’t matter if we stimulated the mutation or not, all that matters is something affected the moths. It stands to reason that natural events have occurred through out the history of the earth that has no doubt created effects of one kind or another. Volcanic Ash, Temperature change, geography (plates moving or animals being swept to different location). To use the effects of something man-made holds just as much validity in pointing out an effect of evolution, as long as the man-made effects where not purposely to stimulate evolution. There is nothing magical about a man-made effect that takes them out of the category of environmental effects, there is nothing that makes man made effects unsuitable for examples of effects that can cause evolution.
I don’t know if this is what they where arguing, but regardless I come across this in such debates often. I would compare this to say; trying to discover if a person bleeds naturally when the skin is breeched. Do we really need to see a person accidentally get a cut in the wild to see if bleeding occurs naturally? Do we not gain information about the nature of bleeding from man-made cuts? It would be stupid to say bleeding does not ever occur because I have never seen it occur naturally and if somebody purposely causes bleeding it doesn’t count. If we do something and the effect induces evolution in a animal or ourselves it tells life evolves (and we can witness much of this in adaptation, why is evolution excluded?).
Edited by Akrid, : Added some "?" marks and stuff

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by MartinV, posted 10-06-2006 1:46 PM MartinV has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 215 by MartinV, posted 10-07-2006 6:22 AM Akrid has not replied

  
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