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Author Topic:   Peppered Moths and Natural Selection
Itinerant Lurker
Member (Idle past 1724 days)
Posts: 67
Joined: 12-12-2008


Message 285 of 350 (612608)
04-17-2011 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 283 by OliverChant
04-17-2011 2:16 PM


Re: You guys do realise that :

You guys do realise that the peppered moth is not found on the trees Darwin said he found them on right?Which ends this arguement here and it has been proven if u can find a peppered mot in real life found there ,well you wont..

"Darwin"? Really?

Read less Wells and more actual research. I mean, good lord man at least do a Google image search for "peppered moths + trees" before posting such nonsense.

Lurker


This message is a reply to:
 Message 283 by OliverChant, posted 04-17-2011 2:16 PM OliverChant has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 286 by OliverChant, posted 04-17-2011 2:44 PM Itinerant Lurker has responded

  
Itinerant Lurker
Member (Idle past 1724 days)
Posts: 67
Joined: 12-12-2008


Message 287 of 350 (612633)
04-17-2011 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 286 by OliverChant
04-17-2011 2:44 PM


Re: You guys do realise that :

I'm sorry the betularia tree happy?btw it was darwin and yet today there has been no-one who has physically found one the tree.

I'm quite happy, thanks. . .and you're still completely wrong.

quote:

Resting Behavior
A mating pair or a lone individual will spend the day hiding from predators, particularly birds. In the case of the former, the male stays with the female to ensure paternity. The best evidence for resting positions is given by data collected by the peppered moth researcher Michael Majerus, and it is given in the accompanying charts. These data were originally published in Howlett and Majerus (1987), and an updated version published in Majerus (1998), who concluded that the moths rest in the upper part of the trees. Majerus notes:

Creationist critics of the peppered moth have often pointed to a statement made by Clarke et al. (1985): "... In 25 years we have only found two betularia on the tree trunks or walls adjacent to our traps, and none elsewhere". The reason now seems obvious. Few people spend their time looking for moths up in the trees. That is where peppered moths rest by day.

From their original data, Howlett and Majerus (1987) concluded that peppered moths generally rest in unexposed positions, using three main types of site. Firstly, a few inches below a branch-trunk joint on a tree trunk where the moth is in shadow; secondly, on the underside of branches and thirdly on foliate twigs. The above data would appear to support this.

Further support for these resting positions is given from experiments watching captive moths taking up resting positions in both males (Mikkola, 1979; 1984) and females (Liebert and Brakefield, 1987).

Majerus, et al., (2000) have shown that peppered moths are cryptically camouflaged against their backgrounds when they rest in the boughs of trees. It is clear that in human visible wavelengths, typica are camouflaged against lichens and carbonaria against plain bark. However, birds are capable of seeing ultraviolet light that humans cannot see. Using an ultraviolet-sensitive video camera, Majerus et al. showed that typica reflect ultraviolet light in a speckled fashion and are camouflaged against crustose lichens common on branches, both in ultraviolet and human-visible wavelengths. However, typica are not as well camouflaged against foliose lichens common on tree trunks; though they are camouflaged in human wavelengths, in ultraviolet wavelengths, foliose lichens do not reflect ultraviolet light.

During an experiment in Cambridge over the seven years 2001–2007 Majerus noted the natural resting positions of peppered moths, and of the 135 moths examined over half were on tree branches, mostly on the lower half of the branch, 37% were on tree trunks, mostly on the north side, and only 12.6% were resting on or under twigs.[4][5]
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppered_moth)


Lurker


This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by OliverChant, posted 04-17-2011 2:44 PM OliverChant has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 288 by OliverChant, posted 04-17-2011 3:38 PM Itinerant Lurker has responded

  
Itinerant Lurker
Member (Idle past 1724 days)
Posts: 67
Joined: 12-12-2008


Message 293 of 350 (612658)
04-17-2011 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 288 by OliverChant
04-17-2011 3:38 PM


wtf

In the 1920's Heslop Harrison thought that pollution was causing mutations in the moths making them dark. Harrison decided to test his idea by conducting experiments with moths. He claimed that feeding polluted leaves to larvae darkened the moths. He didn't use peppered moths. He used similar moths that like peppered moths appear as light and dark colored moths. When the pupae (caterpillars) were fed leaves coated with coal soot the wings of the adults were darker.

So. . .you're not talking about Darwin anymore (which is kind of a relief). . .and you're not talking about natural selection anymore. Do you even understand the point you're trying to make?

Lurker


This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by OliverChant, posted 04-17-2011 3:38 PM OliverChant has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 294 by OliverChant, posted 04-17-2011 4:05 PM Itinerant Lurker has responded

  
Itinerant Lurker
Member (Idle past 1724 days)
Posts: 67
Joined: 12-12-2008


Message 300 of 350 (612670)
04-17-2011 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 294 by OliverChant
04-17-2011 4:05 PM


Re: wtf

I am trying to disprove the evolution theory by the use of darwins moths....

Please take Subbie's advice before posting again.

Lurker


This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by OliverChant, posted 04-17-2011 4:05 PM OliverChant has not yet responded

  
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