Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,850 Year: 4,107/9,624 Month: 978/974 Week: 305/286 Day: 26/40 Hour: 4/3


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The origin of new genes
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5936 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 6 of 164 (351299)
09-22-2006 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Faith
09-22-2006 4:28 AM


Faith
Nobody has doubted that new alleles, genes, are formed by mutation FROM TIME TO TIME. At least in bacteria and perhaps fruit flies this has been shown. It has NOT been actually demonstrated in mammals which is where most of the discussion is
You must be living in the dark ages. You are aware that cancer is caused by mutations don't you? Being that it is the second leading cause of death in human mammalsthen we can hardly state that it has not been demonstrated to be shown. It is not merely shown it is demonstratably widespread.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Faith, posted 09-22-2006 4:28 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Faith, posted 09-22-2006 1:10 PM sidelined has replied
 Message 30 by macnietspingal, posted 09-23-2006 12:36 PM sidelined has not replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5936 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 19 of 164 (351497)
09-22-2006 10:39 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Faith
09-22-2006 1:10 PM


Faith
Again, of course mutations OCCUR, the doubt is whether they could possibly do what the ToE requires them to do, and I have not seen any actual facts that demonstrate that they could or do, merely speculations and assumptions.
I do not understand what you assume TOE requires them to do. If you understand that mutations can occur that are detrimental to macroevolution why do you seem to misunderstand that it is to be expected that detrimental effects outway beneficial ones? Since a complex organization of cells {which is what animals are} requires conditions to be met it should be obvious that there are more ways in which things can go "wrong "in the development of living animals than there are ways for it to go "right".
You also seem to think that evolution in bactria is somehow not macroevolution at all. All functions within human beings occur at the cellular level. Now what are the sizes of the cells in the animal world? Here is a chart listing the variety of size.
0.1 nm (nanometer) diameter of a hydrogen atom
0.8 nm Amino Acid
2 nm Diameter of a DNA Alpha helix
4 nm Globular Protein
6 nm microfilaments
10 nm thickness cell membranes
11 nm Ribosome
25 nm Microtubule
50 nm Nuclear pore
100 nm Large Virus
150-250 nm small bacteria such as Mycoplasma
200 nm Centriole
200 nm (200 to 500 nm) Lysosomes
200 nm (200 to 500 nm) Peroxisomes
800 nm giant virus Mimivirus
1 m (micrometer)
(1 - 10 m) the general sizes for Prokaryotes
1 m Diameter of human nerve cell process
2 m E.coli - a bacterium
3 m Mitochondrion
5 m length of chloroplast
6 m (3 - 10 micrometers) the Nucleus
9 m Human red blood cell
10 m
(10 - 30 m) Most Eukaryotic animal cells
(10 - 100 m) Most Eukaryotic plant cells
90 m small Amoeba
100 m Human Egg
up to 160 m Megakaryocyte
up to 500 m giant bacterium Thiomargarita
up to 800 m large Amoeba
1 mm (1 millimeter, 1/10th cm)
1 mm Diameter of the squid giant nerve cell
120 mm Diameter of an ostrich egg (a dinosaur egg was much larger)
3 meters Length of a nerve cell of giraffe's neck
So since we can agree that mutations can occur in bacteria such as E.Coli and that E.Coli {2 miliionths of a meter, as recorded in list} is a thousand times larger that of a DNA helix {2billionths of a meter} and that a tiny change within the DNA can have profound effects upon subsequent animal development it would follow that mutation occurs in DNA as well.
So we go on to ask what effect this can have in the natural world. If the animal has an advantage provided by a mutation that produces , say, a longer stride capabilty in an animal that is prey for another, then it is obvious that this particular animal would be more likely to live and reproduce. If ,in turn, this advantage is great enough then we find that a greater stride length will become more prevalent since ,as a prey develops a greater ability to evade being eaten then it shall produce a greater number of offspring inhereiting these characteristics.In turn, the predator will either adapt through the natural selection process and thus allow the population as a whole to survive or the group will tend towards extinction.
Now ,since we can examine the animal genome and determine that,yes, certain genes express different characteristics such as stride length through longer leg bones that in turn are selected by the enviroment we can see that mutations such as this are indeed beneficial.
What exactly is it about TOE that fails to account for life as it is?
Edited by sidelined, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Faith, posted 09-22-2006 1:10 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Faith, posted 09-23-2006 12:15 AM sidelined has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024