Are there any "problems" with the ToE that are generally not addressed?

You guys are forgetting some key words. Allegedly and Theoretically.

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Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
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You can make all sorts of statments when you actually know something about what you are talking about. It is pretty clear that your knowledge of genetics ( a rather complex subject ) is zero.

My knowledge of a particular subject doesn't change the fact that you guys routinely speak of ideas and theories as if they are fact.And my knowledge of genetics is basic (premed biology 1,2).Ned, I figured you for one of the nice guys.This message has been edited by Tal, 01-06-2005 05:18 AM

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Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us

Hi Tal, I addressed this point here (click) in response to the description of your college experience. Take a gander and let me know what you think, or whether you have any additional questions/clarifications.

Apparently it causes you to mistake facts for theories and ideas.Evolution is a theory that explains facts. Theories are made of facts. When we speak of the evidence or the observed results of a theory, those things are properly referred to as "facts."Just because evolution is a theory doesn't mean that when the word "evolution" appears in a sentence, we're speaking theoretically.

Well, Evolution is a fact or as close to fact as we are ever likely to find.The Theory of Evolution is, as stated, a theory. It is the best explanation so far of the fact of Evolution.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This has already drawn some responses, but I'd like to add my two cents anyway.A theory is not developed and accepted in a vacuum. Theories are not ideas expounded from armchairs and accepted without question. Theories are frameworks of understanding developed around bodies of data, observations and information after intense study, reflection and dialogue. Theories explain and make sense of the data and make predictions about the natural world, and the data in turn supports the theory. Theories inconsistent with the data they purport to explain don't last long.Theories are also tentative, which means they can change in response to new information or improved insights, which is what I think you're referring to when you say, "allegedly and theoretically." But a challenge to a theory isn't mounted simply by noting its tentative nature.All theories are tentative, including gravity. If I said that the equation for gravitational attraction is F = Gm₁m₂/d², you can't legimately challenge this by saying, "allegedly and theoretically." The equation is supported by a huge amount of data, so challenging the theory must involve challenging the data, or its interpretation.Or taking a similar example closer to your recent experience, if you were to tell me that a bullet fired from your rifle at sea level at one atmospheric pressure at 10% humidity drops 3 cm/km (or whatever the figure is), I couldn't legitimately respond, "allegedly and theoretically," because I'm sure the information is supported by a large body of data.What people are telling you is that a response to an explanation of a theory cannot simply say, "allegedly and theoretically." That's not a legitimate response. Theories are supported by data, and allegations that a theory is false must challege the data or its interpretation.JonF was explaining to you that evolutionary change is rarely accomplished by masking when you replied "allegedly and theoretically." You might instead consider asking him some questions about this to see how well he can support it. I know I would, because I think at least some additional clarification is required. One significant counter-example to the claim is neoteny, and I'm frequently reading about genetic mechanisms that work by preventing a protein from being produced.--Percy

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You guys are forgetting some key words. Allegedly and Theoretically.

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When speaking of things in science, EVERYTHING should be tagged "allegedly and theoretically". It becomes very tedious to do this all of the time, so many drop it when speaking about scientific ideas. It is tacitly understood that all theories are tentative so it is not always necessary to tag everything with modifiers. For instance, let's look at this claim:Claim: When I let go of this pencil, it will fall to the floor.Gravity is a theory, just as evolution is a theory. If I were striving for accuracy I should actually say "it SHOULD fall to the floor" but given all of the evidence supporting the theory of gravity it is easier to say "it will" instead of "it should". The same applies to Evolution. The evidence that supports common ancestory for all organisms is on the same level as the evidence that supports gravity. Common ancestory has been supported to such a point that almost all tentativity has been removed. That life on Earth changed over the last 3.5 billion years is even more strongly supported. Scientists, just as in my gravity example, feel that dropping the "allegedly and theoretically" is warranted.

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Gravity is a theory, just as evolution is a theory.

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/exit thread

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Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us

Now THERE'S an impressively well-thought-out response. Thanks for the significant contribution to the thread, Tal.

Quetzal See this replyBasically I am debating the same thing in 2 different threads, so I stopped posting in this one.

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Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us

Sorry, Tal. Didn't see the other before I posted that. Looking forward to your reply on the other thread.

We are approaching the 300 hundred post mark. It's about time for anyone who has some last thoughts to insert them.

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