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Author Topic:   Why is evolutions primary mechanism mutation ?
RAZD
Member
Posts: 20156
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 76 of 141 (251209)
10-12-2005 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Gary
10-12-2005 10:05 AM


Re: language comparison invalid
but the evolution of language still has very strong similarities to the evolution of living things.

That is where the analogy from evolution to language helps inform the study of language.

My point was that you cannot use this analogy and the result from it in language study to then return to evolution and claim that it informs the study of evolution: that is a causal fallacy of wrong direction (like saying that cancer causes smoking).


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand

RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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Replies to this message:
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JavaMan
Member (Idle past 611 days)
Posts: 475
From: York, England
Joined: 08-05-2005


Message 77 of 141 (266741)
12-08-2005 8:31 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by RAZD
10-12-2005 4:03 PM


Re: language comparison invalid
My point was that you cannot use this analogy and the result from it in language study to then return to evolution and claim that it informs the study of evolution: that is a causal fallacy of wrong direction (like saying that cancer causes smoking).

Nonsense.

I can use any analogy I like if it helps to explain a concept. The fact that using the term 'evolution' in language study originated by analogy with biological evolution is irrelevant.

Changes in languages are simpler than changes in living organisms, and they are more readily observed and understood by people who don't have specialist knowledge. That's why language provides a useful analogy.


The true mystery of the world is the visible, not the invisible

This message is a reply to:
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Carico
Inactive Member


Message 78 of 141 (266759)
12-08-2005 9:30 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by igor_the_hero
09-13-2005 5:25 PM


Not only that, but evolutionists are asking us to believe that this perfect random mutation happened over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over again to develop the cognition, bi-pedal qualities, the ability to form concepts and analyses and the ability to rule over the animals that the human being posseses. This then makes the odds of evolution so astronimoical as to be impossible. And none of this is provable. It is all a "what if" hypothesis that comes from the imagination. One would have a better chance in saying that aliens came and deposited human beings before there were any witnesses & will come back millions of years from to to prove it! At least that doesn't contradict the reproductive process, and random mutation. But what evolutionists don't realize is, that if this pattern of mutation happened, then it is no longer random because random mutation does not Keep adding superior genes to the cell. It is random.

Evolutionists are also asking us to believe the an ape and a "common ancestor" mated to produce a mutant who then found another mutant with the exact same mutation and they bred an offspring who found another mutant who then bred offspring with another mutant whose genes had added another superior trait by accident, and they found another mutant to breed with who also had another superior gene added to his DNA and on and on. This is not only astronomical, but completely bizarre as well. And all of this to deny that God exists!


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Replies to this message:
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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5399
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 79 of 141 (266763)
12-08-2005 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by Carico
12-08-2005 9:30 AM


This is not only astronomical, but completely bizarre as well.

Sure is! Where did you get all that? It has practically nothing in common with what biologists think happened to lead to people.

See if your library has What Evolution Is by Ernst Mayr. It's onle 150 pages or so.

This message has been edited by Coragyps, 12-08-2005 09:44 AM


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Parasomnium
Member (Idle past 988 days)
Posts: 2191
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 80 of 141 (266767)
12-08-2005 9:46 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by Carico
12-08-2005 9:30 AM


Why do I bother....
Carico writes:

Not only that, but evolutionists are asking us to believe that this perfect random mutation happened over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over again to develop the cognition, bi-pedal qualities, the ability to form concepts and analyses and the ability to rule over the animals that the human being posseses. This then makes the odds of evolution so astronimoical as to be impossible.

Not perfect mutation, random mutation. The "perfection", if that's what you want to call it, comes from natural selection.

Creationists ALWAYS neglect to consider natural selection.

Evolutionists are also asking us to believe the an ape and a "common ancestor" mated to produce a mutant who then found another mutant with the exact same mutation and they bred an offspring who found another mutant who then bred offspring with another mutant whose genes had added another superior trait by accident, and they found another mutant to breed with who also had another superior gene added to his DNA and on and on. This is not only astronomical, but completely bizarre as well.

Evolutionists are not asking you to believe such a caricature.

And all of this to deny that God exists!

For your information, there are a lot of evolutionists who believe in God.

You have a completely misguided idea of what evolution is all about. It has been explained to you many times now, but you simply won't listen.

Could you tell me why I should go on talking to you?

This message has been edited by Parasomnium, 08-Dec-2005 02:55 PM


"We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." - Richard Dawkins

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AdminWounded
Inactive Member


Message 81 of 141 (266780)
12-08-2005 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by Carico
12-08-2005 9:30 AM


topic spamming
Carico,

Could you please restrict your discussion of this topic to one thread? At the moment you seem to be arguing the same point in parallel on at least five different threads.

TTFN,

AW

This message has been edited by AdminWounded, 08-Dec-2005 03:11 PM


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Carico
Inactive Member


Message 82 of 141 (266781)
12-08-2005 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by Coragyps
12-08-2005 9:43 AM


That's always a standard answer from evolutionists when they see how ridiculous their theory is. They always say that other people don't understand it. Then they go right back and repeat the exact same thing that others whom they say don't understand it, said about it.

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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 83 of 141 (266825)
12-08-2005 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by Coragyps
12-08-2005 9:43 AM


More lies
See if your library has What Evolution Is by Ernst Mayr. It's only 150 pages or so.

More lies and misrepresentation on the part of evos. According to the card catalog at my local library, it's 318 pages!


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 31522
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 84 of 141 (266828)
12-08-2005 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by Carico
12-08-2005 9:30 AM


One major, major error in your thinking
And all of this to deny that God exists!

That is an utterly false statement.

This is slightly Off Topic but needs to be corrected.

Evolution and the Theory of Evolution says nothing about whether or not GOD exists. Many of the supporters of the TOE believe in GOD and are Christians. In fact, every one of the major Christian sects supports the teaching of Evolution and opposes teaching Creationism or ID.

The Clergy Project


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Replies to this message:
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Carico
Inactive Member


Message 85 of 141 (266877)
12-08-2005 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by jar
12-08-2005 12:33 PM


Re: One major, major error in your thinking
Then why not simply believe that God created man? Why invent the theory of evolution at all? There are so many gaping holes in it that it's an embarrassment to science. It doesn't explain how the "common ancestor" got the traits of a human, or where it came from, the incalculable mutations that would have had to have occur by chance in the myriad of generations of apes, what this "common ancestor" looked like, or if it even existed at all! If you're going to say that this "common ancestor" just appeared, then why not simply believe that God created humans? What other explanation for our miraculous life can there be except from a miraculous source? Why would a miraculous creation come from an unmiraculous source? That's an oxymoron...unless of course you don't believe in the miracle of life or the miraculous nature of God. But if you do, then again, why not accept the biblical account of creation? That supports reality perfectly, by the way. Humans were created as a separate species to rule over the animals and each animal breeds its own kind. And that is the way that creation has been operating since the beginning of recorded history. So why mess with that at all if you believe in God?

This message has been edited by Carico, 12-08-2005 03:06 PM


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Replies to this message:
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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2220 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 86 of 141 (266904)
12-08-2005 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by igor_the_hero
09-13-2005 8:38 PM


there are single-celled organisms that reproduce sexually. they combine and transfer dna and create two completely new cells.

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2220 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 87 of 141 (266907)
12-08-2005 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Modulous
09-13-2005 11:09 PM


Re: Evolution's primary mechanism
precisely. in fact, you can have all kinds of somatic mutation with absolutely no germ cell mutation. without germ mutation, nothing will change in the offspring.

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2220 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 88 of 141 (266911)
12-08-2005 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Carico
12-08-2005 3:04 PM


speaking of major errors in thinking.
the common ancestor didn't get the traits of the human. the human got the traits of the common ancestor and expanded upon them.

the common ancestor didn't just appear. he came from ancestors of his all the way back to the first mammal which came from something else. you're tracking up we're tracking down. your thinking is so fundamentally different.

and evolution has NOTHING to do with god. it doesn't suggest one way or the other whether god exists. why is it so difficult for you people to get that? there is absolutely no reason that god could not have created evolution as a law in his universe. none at all.

This message has been edited by brennakimi, 12-08-2005 04:31 PM


i'm worldwide bitch, act like ya'll don't know.

This message is a reply to:
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Parasomnium
Member (Idle past 988 days)
Posts: 2191
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 89 of 141 (266914)
12-08-2005 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by robinrohan
12-08-2005 12:28 PM


Re: More lies
robinrohan writes:

More lies and misrepresentation on the part of evos. According to the card catalog at my local library, it's 318 pages!

I am afraid your evil subtlety is lost on your average fundamentalist creationist.

Anyway, someone must have torn out some pages from the copy in your local library. I have in my bookcase, on the evolution shelf (no, really!) a copy that contains 366 pages, that's including the pages with roman numerals. Now, what important information has been removed from the book in your local library, one wonders? And by whom? And why?

I can envision a book: "The Evilution Conspiracy", unfinished manuscript found in the legacy of the late Robin Rohan (murdered by evilutionists), finished and published by Parasomnium (now in coma).

This message has been edited by Parasomnium, 08-Dec-2005 09:46 PM

This message has been edited by Parasomnium, 08-Dec-2005 10:15 PM


"We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." - Richard Dawkins

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jar
Member
Posts: 31522
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 90 of 141 (266926)
12-08-2005 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Carico
12-08-2005 3:04 PM


Re: One major, major error in your thinking
Then why not simply believe that God created man?

Because despite your incredulity, and your basic misunderstanding of what Evolution is or what the Theory of Evolution says, that's what ALL of the evidence says. To believe in Classical Biblical Creationism is not just bad science, it's even worse theology.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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