Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,784 Year: 4,041/9,624 Month: 912/974 Week: 239/286 Day: 46/109 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Has there ever been anything that made you think twice about evolution's validity?
KellyCampbell
Inactive Junior Member


Message 1 of 25 (45779)
07-11-2003 7:56 PM


I am curious as to if there has ever been any kind of evidence or argument that has made you stop and think, "Wow, that is a good point, maybe I should reconsider evolutionary theory." If so, please detail it in this thread. Thanks.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by crashfrog, posted 07-11-2003 9:31 PM KellyCampbell has not replied
 Message 3 by Autocatalysis, posted 07-11-2003 9:41 PM KellyCampbell has not replied
 Message 4 by roxrkool, posted 07-12-2003 12:24 AM KellyCampbell has not replied
 Message 5 by nator, posted 07-12-2003 4:26 PM KellyCampbell has not replied
 Message 6 by Andor, posted 07-12-2003 6:29 PM KellyCampbell has not replied
 Message 7 by John, posted 07-12-2003 7:13 PM KellyCampbell has not replied
 Message 8 by Dan Carroll, posted 07-12-2003 7:44 PM KellyCampbell has not replied
 Message 17 by Mammuthus, posted 07-14-2003 4:23 AM KellyCampbell has not replied
 Message 23 by Peter, posted 07-15-2003 5:27 AM KellyCampbell has not replied
 Message 24 by MrHambre, posted 07-15-2003 11:11 AM KellyCampbell has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1493 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 2 of 25 (45782)
07-11-2003 9:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by KellyCampbell
07-11-2003 7:56 PM


The whole idea of "irreducable complexity" had me totally a creationist for like 2 years.
Of course, I was like 14 or something, and much more into physics and cosmology than biology. A professor of biology pointed me to The Blind Watchmaker (after I had stayed after class to confront her) and I was brought back into the fold.
The funny thing is, the more I make stuff - be it programming, carpentry, whatever - the more I realize that the kind of design that intelligent designers make is totally, fundamentally different - even inferior - to the kind of "design" you get from the mechanisms of heritable mutation and selection pressure.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by KellyCampbell, posted 07-11-2003 7:56 PM KellyCampbell has not replied

  
Autocatalysis
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 25 (45784)
07-11-2003 9:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by KellyCampbell
07-11-2003 7:56 PM


I have always been obsessed with biology. When I first learnt about evolution it explained things in a way I had already been thinking. I have often doubted parts of ToE. For example, reinforcement theory. Ironically, my doubt is perpetuated by the proponents! But the fundamentals, no.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by KellyCampbell, posted 07-11-2003 7:56 PM KellyCampbell has not replied

  
roxrkool
Member (Idle past 1015 days)
Posts: 1497
From: Nevada
Joined: 03-23-2003


Message 4 of 25 (45809)
07-12-2003 12:24 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by KellyCampbell
07-11-2003 7:56 PM


Nope, never.
To be honest, I cannot think of a time, even as a child, that I believed a god created this world or that Noah's Flood was true. Perhaps I was never taught that either were true, but rather interesting stories/myths on morality. I did go to Catechism for 3 years, but can't seem to remember much at all. My father always bought me science books so a scientific explanation is what I learned.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by KellyCampbell, posted 07-11-2003 7:56 PM KellyCampbell has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2196 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 5 of 25 (45838)
07-12-2003 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by KellyCampbell
07-11-2003 7:56 PM


quote:
I am curious as to if there has ever been any kind of evidence or argument that has made you stop and think, "Wow, that is a good point, maybe I should reconsider evolutionary theory." If so, please detail it in this thread.
Well, no, nothing I have ever heard or read has ever made me doubt evolution.
Nothing has ever made me doubt that the Sun is the center of the solar system, either.
Yes, that's how much evidence there is to support evolution, and it's just as unreasonable to think it didn't happen as it is to think that the solar system is not heliocentric.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by KellyCampbell, posted 07-11-2003 7:56 PM KellyCampbell has not replied

  
Andor
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 25 (45853)
07-12-2003 6:29 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by KellyCampbell
07-11-2003 7:56 PM


My doubts are only about the tendency of the New Synthesis to assimilate every new idea or hypothesis. New Darwinism is right, no doubt, but I think there are much more in evolution than that, for example the incorporation of a whole alien genome as in endosymbiosis.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by KellyCampbell, posted 07-11-2003 7:56 PM KellyCampbell has not replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 25 (45856)
07-12-2003 7:13 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by KellyCampbell
07-11-2003 7:56 PM


Well, I was raised Christian and pretty fundie at that. I always knew that I was being asked to believe some things that, even at eight years old, I knew were a bit odd. Dinosaurs, for example. We have ample evidence of such beasties, but no mention of them in the Bible. I suppose what finally did it was realizing that there was just too much evidence I'd have to ignore to take the Bible literally.
------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by KellyCampbell, posted 07-11-2003 7:56 PM KellyCampbell has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by mike the wiz, posted 07-12-2003 8:40 PM John has replied

  
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 25 (45859)
07-12-2003 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by KellyCampbell
07-11-2003 7:56 PM


I gave some consideration to intelligent design for a while, but didn't see it as conflicting with the theory of evolution.
I also abandoned ID a while ago. For instance, I had a root canal a few days ago, and my back has been spasming for about 36 straight hours now. Design? Maybe. Intelligent design? My entire ass.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by KellyCampbell, posted 07-11-2003 7:56 PM KellyCampbell has not replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4755
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 9 of 25 (45861)
07-12-2003 8:40 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by John
07-12-2003 7:13 PM


'always knew that I was being asked to believe some things that, even at eight years old, I knew were a bit odd. Dinosaurs, for example. We have ample evidence of such beasties, but no mention of them in the Bible.'
dinosaur is a modern word!
230 years before the word "dinosaur" was available!. Using a Strong's Concordance, you will find the Hebrew word "tannin" is used 25 times, and is translated as 'dragon(s),''serpent(s),' 'monster(s)'
also there is Leviathan .
BEHEMOTH 'most excellent beasts.
[This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 07-12-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by John, posted 07-12-2003 7:13 PM John has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Yaro, posted 07-12-2003 10:32 PM mike the wiz has not replied
 Message 15 by John, posted 07-14-2003 1:29 AM mike the wiz has not replied

  
Yaro
Member (Idle past 6522 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 10 of 25 (45866)
07-12-2003 10:32 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by mike the wiz
07-12-2003 8:40 PM


Yes, but when they are mentioned, they are mentioned as individuals. That is, as unique.
There were hundreds and thousands of millions of dinasours. Especially in the region of the middle east and Africa.
If indeed they were so common, then why did the people in the Bible seem to regard these 'dragons', as individual, unique, and misterious creatures? They must have seen a brontosaurus everyday on their way to work, woulden't that get old after a while?
[This message has been edited by Yaro, 07-12-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by mike the wiz, posted 07-12-2003 8:40 PM mike the wiz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by NosyNed, posted 07-12-2003 11:05 PM Yaro has not replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9003
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 11 of 25 (45867)
07-12-2003 11:05 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Yaro
07-12-2003 10:32 PM


getting off topic guys!
if dinosaurs are interesting then start or add to another thread, maybe please

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Yaro, posted 07-12-2003 10:32 PM Yaro has not replied

  
IrishRockhound
Member (Idle past 4462 days)
Posts: 569
From: Ireland
Joined: 05-19-2003


Message 12 of 25 (45897)
07-13-2003 12:53 PM


I was raised as a Catholic, then had my faith destroyed at the age of 15 because I could not reconcile the Bible with science, and I found it hard to believe in something that was sounding more and more like a work of fiction to me.
Since I entered the field of geology and learned about evolution properly, I have never doubted it. It has always, without fail, proved to be the best answer we have.
The Rock Hound

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9003
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 13 of 25 (45898)
07-13-2003 1:06 PM


Sometimes I have had a twinge. Thinking that the explanations could not account for how things are.
Not doubting it happened though, that is obvious. Just wondering about the explanations
The relatively recent discoveries in genetics are making it much clearer how things work and that is making it more comprehensible.

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22492
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 14 of 25 (45901)
07-13-2003 1:54 PM


I have never doubted that evolution happened, but just as a few others have already stated here, I have strong doubts about many reconstructions of evolutionary history. For example, I've followed the evolving history of the reconstruction of the evolution of Homo sapiens, and the most important to thing to note is that minor revisions occur several times a year, and major revisions several times per decade, and all the primary advocates of various scenarios seem to hate each other and not be on speaking terms. Not that knowledge of our evoutionary history isn't progressing. Clearly it is. But each new stage only reveals how naive prior interpretations were, and this seems likely to continue. You'd think the scientists involved would have learned long ago to express themselves with much less certainty, though perhaps the field is just suffering the legacy of the strong personalities involved early on, such as Leakey and Johansson.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Mammuthus, posted 07-14-2003 4:09 AM Percy has not replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 25 (45933)
07-14-2003 1:29 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by mike the wiz
07-12-2003 8:40 PM


quote:
dinosaur is a modern word!
Yeah, no kidding! Do you really think I expect a modern English word to appear in a document penned in Hebrew and Greek 2000 to 3000 years ago?
But take it elsewhere. This is off-topic and thus out of place here.
------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by mike the wiz, posted 07-12-2003 8:40 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024