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Author Topic:   Definition of Evolution
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3625 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 51 of 212 (418712)
08-29-2007 11:02 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Vacate
08-29-2007 10:27 PM


Re: skipping mud
Vacate:
I place my bets that there is not one evolutionist on this board that thinks mudskippers are not transitional. (Not a fair bet really, as anyone who understands the theory would say that about any living creature not doomed for extinction) The interesting thing about the mudskipper is that it is so obviously transitional from one environment to the next that it becomes a living example of the likely path that such creatures as Tiktaalic took so long ago.
Actually, anyone who truly understands the theory would know that extinction has little to do with this. Chronology does, though. Chronology correlates logically with the placement of individuals in any family tree.
'Transitional' forms that appear to be still going strong today are not the pivot point you speak of. If truly related, the modern form is descended from the transitional form that represents the true pivot point. That original creature had descendants who went off in at least two (often more) directions.
That's why scientists talk of populations and how they change. Populations within a species face different environmental pressures and adapt in various ways. Speciation--the formation of new species--results.
The apparently 'transitional' forms you observe today are different species from the ancient creatures you want to equate them with. Modern coelocanths are not the same species as fossil coelocanths. A modern mud skipper is not Ichthyostega. A modern chimpanzee, or human, is not the same species as the common ancestor of both.
Still, all species are transitional. It may well be that the modern mud skipper is repeating natural history as we speak. It may be evolving into a terrestrial form. Time will tell.
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Edited by Archer Opterix, : No reason given.
Edited by Archer Opterix, : html.
Edited by Archer Opterix, : brev.
Edited by Archer Opterix, : typo repair.
Edited by Archer Opterix, : corrected attribution.

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Vacate, posted 08-29-2007 10:27 PM Vacate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Vacate, posted 08-29-2007 11:42 PM Archer Opteryx has replied

  
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3625 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 65 of 212 (418756)
08-30-2007 6:49 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by Vacate
08-29-2007 11:42 PM


Re: skipping mud
My apologies, Vacate, for misattributing your quote to Vashgun, whose point of view I intended to respond to. I fixed the text.
What I was thinking of is if the entire species (say the mudskipper) had gone extict before it had had a chance to produce a viable population of decendants of a different species. The result would then be that the mudskipper was never transitional as it never had the opportunity.
It would be an evolutionary dead-end, yes. Presumably some other amphibious creatures, ancestral to it, would be the place to look for transitionals.
Which is, of course, why we see so much discussion among scientists about the proper placement of species. The picture has ancestral species and transitionals, but also those offshoots and dead ends. There's a main trunk that divides into major branches that further divide. And there are twigs that stick out that don't go very far.
It's like any family tree, really.
___
Edited by Archer Opterix, : html.

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Vacate, posted 08-29-2007 11:42 PM Vacate has not replied

  
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3625 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 104 of 212 (419064)
08-31-2007 5:06 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by Xaruan
08-31-2007 5:03 PM


Welcome to EvC, Xaruan.
Thanks for sharing these comments.

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Xaruan, posted 08-31-2007 5:03 PM Xaruan has not replied

  
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