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Author Topic:   Critique of Ann Coulter's The Church of Liberalism: Godless
nator
Member (Idle past 1189 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 211 of 298 (340580)
08-16-2006 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 205 by Cold Foreign Object
08-16-2006 3:30 PM


Re: Critique by Jerry Coyne
quote:
Coyne, like most evolutionists, set themselves up as a "teacher" correcting an inferior (opponent).

Considering that he is a Professor of Biology at the University of Chicago, he actually is a teacher.

He teaches and does research in Biology (specifically, the genetics of speciation) for a living.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 08-16-2006 3:30 PM Cold Foreign Object has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 212 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 08-16-2006 8:22 PM nator has responded
 Message 220 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-17-2006 12:59 PM nator has responded

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2067 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 212 of 298 (340646)
08-16-2006 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by nator
08-16-2006 5:47 PM


Re: Critique by Jerry Coyne
Considering that he is a Professor of Biology at the University of Chicago, he actually is a teacher.

He teaches and does research in Biology (specifically, the genetics of speciation) for a living.

Nice dodge.

Ray


This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by nator, posted 08-16-2006 5:47 PM nator has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 213 by crashfrog, posted 08-16-2006 8:46 PM Cold Foreign Object has responded
 Message 214 by nator, posted 08-16-2006 8:55 PM Cold Foreign Object has responded
 Message 216 by Omnivorous, posted 08-16-2006 10:20 PM Cold Foreign Object has not yet responded

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 487 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 213 of 298 (340650)
08-16-2006 8:46 PM
Reply to: Message 212 by Cold Foreign Object
08-16-2006 8:22 PM


Re: Critique by Jerry Coyne
Yeah, for real. I mean it's not like expertise actually exists, right? A lifetime of devoting yourself to study in a field? Meaningless, of course.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 08-16-2006 8:22 PM Cold Foreign Object has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 08-17-2006 3:42 PM crashfrog has not yet responded

nator
Member (Idle past 1189 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 214 of 298 (340652)
08-16-2006 8:55 PM
Reply to: Message 212 by Cold Foreign Object
08-16-2006 8:22 PM


Re: Critique by Jerry Coyne
Uh, how is the fact that he actually IS a teacher a dodge of your accusation that he "assumes the position of a teacher"?

He doesn't have to "assume" the position.

He really is a Professor of Biology.

He really is a teacher.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 08-16-2006 8:22 PM Cold Foreign Object has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 217 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 08-16-2006 11:59 PM nator has responded

Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 629 days)
Posts: 3811
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 215 of 298 (340667)
08-16-2006 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by Heathen
08-16-2006 5:30 PM


Re: Critique by Jerry Coyne
I guess I'm intrigued to know if herepton actually believes that because a man is an evolutionist then his actions are predetermined in some way.

Who knows what Ray really believes? But when the spirit moves him, he will quote the biblical chapter and verse which support his assertion that evilutionists are cursed to their blindness by God.

I cannot ever quite retain how that works. Must be the curse at work.


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Replies to this message:
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Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 629 days)
Posts: 3811
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 216 of 298 (340668)
08-16-2006 10:20 PM
Reply to: Message 212 by Cold Foreign Object
08-16-2006 8:22 PM


Re: Critique by Jerry Coyne
Herepton writes:

Considering that he is a Professor of Biology at the University of Chicago, he actually is a teacher.
He teaches and does research in Biology (specifically, the genetics of speciation) for a living.

Nice dodge.

Ray

Lame dodge.


God gave us the earth. We have dominion over the plants, the animals, the trees. God said, ‘Earth is yours. Take it. Rape it. It’s yours.’
--Ann Coulter, Fox-TV: Hannity & Colmes, 20 Jun 01

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Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 08-16-2006 8:22 PM Cold Foreign Object has not yet responded

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2067 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 217 of 298 (340695)
08-16-2006 11:59 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by nator
08-16-2006 8:55 PM


Re: Critique by Jerry Coyne
Uh, how is the fact that he actually IS a teacher a dodge of your accusation that he "assumes the position of a teacher"?

He doesn't have to "assume" the position.

He really is a Professor of Biology.

He really is a teacher.

You have misunderstood. Let me help. Coyne, an evolutionist, and Coulter, of whom I presume is an IDist or Creationist, simply disagrees with her. In order to grind his axe Coyne and Quetzal claim the inferior Coulter does not understand, when in fact, like I said, he simply disagrees.

I have done like Coyne in this post too. Claiming you misunderstand, when in fact, we just disagree....do you understand ?

Ray


This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by nator, posted 08-16-2006 8:55 PM nator has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by nator, posted 08-17-2006 10:15 AM Cold Foreign Object has responded
 Message 219 by Quetzal, posted 08-17-2006 10:31 AM Cold Foreign Object has responded

nator
Member (Idle past 1189 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 218 of 298 (340780)
08-17-2006 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 217 by Cold Foreign Object
08-16-2006 11:59 PM


Re: Critique by Jerry Coyne
quote:
Coyne, an evolutionist,

...and Professor of Biology at a University...

quote:
and Coulter, of whom I presume is an IDist or Creationist,

...who is not in any way, shape, or form even remotely close to the same level of expertise in Biology as Coyne, a Professor of Biology...

quote:
simply disagrees with her.

...as well he should, being a teacher and an expert in a field that Coulter is neither.

Coulter is simply wrong in her portrayal of Biology.

What kind of teacher would Coyne be if he didn't try to correct her mistakes?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 08-16-2006 11:59 PM Cold Foreign Object has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 08-17-2006 3:38 PM nator has responded

Quetzal
Member (Idle past 4892 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 219 of 298 (340782)
08-17-2006 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 217 by Cold Foreign Object
08-16-2006 11:59 PM


Re: Critique by Jerry Coyne
You have misunderstood. Let me help. Coyne, an evolutionist, and Coulter, of whom I presume is an IDist or Creationist, simply disagrees with her. In order to grind his axe Coyne and Quetzal claim the inferior Coulter does not understand, when in fact, like I said, he simply disagrees.

Actually, Ray, it's not that Coulter "disagrees", it's that she's utterly clueless. Her screed is nothing but a rehash of YEC PRATTs, some of which even the main creationist organizations have finally admitted are bogus. The fact that she agrees with you, as opposed to practicing biologists, is somewhat irrelevant to the validity of her claims. In addition, she is very, erm, pointed about her contempt for and disdain of people who quite clearly know more than she does. Doesn't exactly inspire confidence in her intellectual integrity, now does it?

You should be happy for her, on the other hand, since her book is continuing to top the best seller list. By inference, that means that there are more people in the US like you than there are like Coyne. Looks like you're winning after all.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 08-16-2006 11:59 PM Cold Foreign Object has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 224 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 08-17-2006 3:45 PM Quetzal has not yet responded

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 220 of 298 (340829)
08-17-2006 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by nator
08-16-2006 5:47 PM


Re: Critique by Jerry Coyne
Considering that he is a Professor of Biology at the University of Chicago, he actually is a teacher.

I thought Coyne was a professor of Biology at the U of Colorado, Boulder. Who am I thinking of? Anyone know? He's supposed to be an eminent professor of evolutionary biology...?


“It is in vain, O' man, that you seek within yourselves the cure for all your miseries. All your insight has led you to the knowledge that it is not in yourselves that you will discover the true and the good.” -Blaise Pascal

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by nator, posted 08-16-2006 5:47 PM nator has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 225 by nator, posted 08-17-2006 4:37 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

Quetzal
Member (Idle past 4892 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 221 of 298 (340843)
08-17-2006 1:46 PM


Godless: The Scientific Merit
TalkReason.org has a very good series of articles written by James Downard that address in some detail the "scientific merits" of Godless: here, here, and here. (Once again, thanks to the good folks at iidb.org, and especially JamesABrown for the links).

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2067 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 222 of 298 (340865)
08-17-2006 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 218 by nator
08-17-2006 10:15 AM


Re: Critique by Jerry Coyne
What kind of teacher would Coyne be if he didn't try to correct her mistakes?

You are mistaken. Coyne and Coulter are opponents - neither person is a teacher or student in the context that we found them. Either one may be a teacher or student in their private or professional lives, but, like I just mentioned, the context of their union are worldview and debate opponents. We know Coyne teaches at the university level. We also know that Coulter teaches her knowledge in the books that she writes and speaking lectures. I am sure both persons admit to being students of the secrets of knowledge until the day that they die.

In addition, your question assumes Coullter needs correcting when in fact Coyne disagrees. We know disagreement is the real reason because Darwinists and Creationists do not agree. Therefore, the "correcting tactic" is exactly that - a tactic caused by the inability to refute or admit that you simply disagree, which exposes the dishonesty of the "teacher correcting student tactic".

I am glad to be able to correct your mistake and see that you are open for correction.

Ray


This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by nator, posted 08-17-2006 10:15 AM nator has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by nator, posted 08-17-2006 4:51 PM Cold Foreign Object has responded

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2067 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 223 of 298 (340867)
08-17-2006 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by crashfrog
08-16-2006 8:46 PM


Re: Critique by Jerry Coyne
Yeah, for real. I mean it's not like expertise actually exists, right? A lifetime of devoting yourself to study in a field? Meaningless, of course.

You are mistaken. Coyne's credentials were never in dispute.

Ray


This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by crashfrog, posted 08-16-2006 8:46 PM crashfrog has not yet responded

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2067 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 224 of 298 (340869)
08-17-2006 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 219 by Quetzal
08-17-2006 10:31 AM


Re: Critique by Jerry Coyne
Actually, Ray, it's not that Coulter "disagrees", it's that she's utterly clueless. Her screed is nothing but a rehash of YEC PRATTs, some of which even the main creationist organizations have finally admitted are bogus.

Name two that her own kind part ways with her ?

Ray


This message is a reply to:
 Message 219 by Quetzal, posted 08-17-2006 10:31 AM Quetzal has not yet responded

nator
Member (Idle past 1189 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 225 of 298 (340873)
08-17-2006 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by Hyroglyphx
08-17-2006 12:59 PM


Re: Critique by Jerry Coyne
quote:
I thought Coyne was a professor of Biology at the U of Colorado, Boulder. Who am I thinking of? Anyone know? He's supposed to be an eminent professor of evolutionary biology...?

I don't know who you are thinking of.

The author of Coultergeist is a professor at the University of Chicago.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-17-2006 12:59 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

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